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<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8436580" data-attributes="member: 6915329"><p>"Escaping from jail," where the jail is in a small town, or a larger city with particularly inept or easily-bribable guards, <em>especially </em>when the character has special abilities, is completely plausible, doable, not at all outlandish, and is a thing that actual real-world people do fairly frequently. Unless you have already established that <em>every single </em>jail in your setting is guarded by much higher-level NPCs and magic, of course.</p><p></p><p>At this point, I'd like to see what you consider an acceptable background.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Gosh, I had no idea! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></p><p></p><p>Now compare that number to the number of non-casters there, and take into consideration that non-casters are going to outnumber casters in most settings by a <em>lot.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>200 gp <em>plus expenses. </em>Are you assuming that the spellcaster is working for free?</p><p></p><p>Apparently the Adventurer's League has an actual formula for determining how much it costs to have an NPC cast a spell for you (in AL games): (Level)^2×10+(Consumed Materials×2)+(Non-consumed Materials×0.1) Using this as a guide, and assuming that Level means spell level, not caster level, and keeping in mind that high school math was a long time ago... that's 490gp, which is <em>significantly </em>higher. And that's assuming you're having <em>glyph of warding</em> set to either <em>explosive runes </em>or a spell that requires no costly components.</p><p></p><p>Of course, you can just handwave this and say it only costs 200gp worth of rare incense and powdered diamond and the caster works for free, even though that's quite implausible. And that the resultant explosion won't take out the walls of the jail (freeing the other prisoners), or kill people it's not supposed to kill (the <em>explosive runes </em>is a 20-foot <em>radius </em>sphere) <em>including </em>other guards who are within that range and prisoners who <em>haven't </em>been sentenced to death. And if you set it to a spell-glyph and a non-damaging spell, like <em>hold person </em>or <em>sleep</em>. Most of those have a duration of a minute, so the guards would have a fairly low chance of even realizing that you've been affected (are you going to hire a guard to do nothing but watch the cell of a common prisoner who is only just technically 1st level, on the off chance that they try to escape but get zapped by the <em>glyph</em>?). And then the spell is gone and your <em>second </em>attempt won't be impeded.</p><p></p><p>But if that's the case, why not handwave the "implausibility" of someone escaping from a podunk jail?</p><p></p><p>And yes, in comparison to the vast majority of NPCs, 5th level is quite high. I'm guessing there's a chance you play a lot in the Realms, where high-level NPCs are a silver piece a dozen, but that's not the case in most other settings.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I hate to say it, but you really don't understand how sexism works. Unless you're trying to say that there's sexism in your games (because medieval mindset) <em>unless </em>a woman can "prove" she's scary-powerful? Uh-huh. That mindset doesn't work in the real world (if it did, then there would be no displays of bigotry in places where concealed carry permits are a thing). It's not going to work in a game world either.</p><p></p><p>If you have a world where there's no sexism, or no widespread, endemic sexism (or racism, or homophobia, or classism, or whatever type of bigotry you want), then it's a world that doesn't have a medieval mindset.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Earlier you wrote "Also, what would he the point of playing medieval fantasy or even Renaissance fantasy and using modern world point of view?" This is <em>not </em>a medieval fantasy or renaissance mindset at all. It's not even a <em>modern </em>mindset. So you answered your own question.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I am going to laugh hysterically for a few minutes now. </p><p></p><p>You have a <em>very </em>strange idea of what "respect" means.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Who would be out of a job in a LG society.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Did the PCs ask to look around for stuff? No? Then that's where passive Per comes into play. If it's not high enough, then oh well.</p><p></p><p>But let's say you want them to at least have a chance to notice the <em>eye, </em>since after all, action is better than inaction. So you pick the PC that makes the most sense to spot it and have them roll. The one with the highest passive Per. The one who is built for spotting things. The one who's been paranoid about being spied on. Something like that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Oddly, I <em>never </em>get a wave of protest when I say "no, just them."</p><p></p><p>And this still doesn't explain why you preroll. Why not roll right there and then?</p><p></p><p></p><p>In my experience, players are <em>always </em>expecting something to happen. The other option is expecting that <em>nothing </em>will happen, and nobody wants to play in those games.</p><p></p><p>And again, you can roll for the PC right then. It doesn't change the fact that most players don't like other people rolling <em>for </em>them, though, but at least we can trust that you are <em>actually </em>rolling and not just going along for the ride and hoping that you'll allow them to notice the whatever it is that's there to be noticed. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Have you aware of the Geek Social Fallacies? I have to wonder if that player just figured that he had better go along because otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 8436580, member: 6915329"] "Escaping from jail," where the jail is in a small town, or a larger city with particularly inept or easily-bribable guards, [I]especially [/I]when the character has special abilities, is completely plausible, doable, not at all outlandish, and is a thing that actual real-world people do fairly frequently. Unless you have already established that [I]every single [/I]jail in your setting is guarded by much higher-level NPCs and magic, of course. At this point, I'd like to see what you consider an acceptable background. Gosh, I had no idea! :rolleyes: Now compare that number to the number of non-casters there, and take into consideration that non-casters are going to outnumber casters in most settings by a [I]lot.[/I] 200 gp [I]plus expenses. [/I]Are you assuming that the spellcaster is working for free? Apparently the Adventurer's League has an actual formula for determining how much it costs to have an NPC cast a spell for you (in AL games): (Level)^2×10+(Consumed Materials×2)+(Non-consumed Materials×0.1) Using this as a guide, and assuming that Level means spell level, not caster level, and keeping in mind that high school math was a long time ago... that's 490gp, which is [I]significantly [/I]higher. And that's assuming you're having [I]glyph of warding[/I] set to either [I]explosive runes [/I]or a spell that requires no costly components. Of course, you can just handwave this and say it only costs 200gp worth of rare incense and powdered diamond and the caster works for free, even though that's quite implausible. And that the resultant explosion won't take out the walls of the jail (freeing the other prisoners), or kill people it's not supposed to kill (the [I]explosive runes [/I]is a 20-foot [I]radius [/I]sphere) [I]including [/I]other guards who are within that range and prisoners who [I]haven't [/I]been sentenced to death. And if you set it to a spell-glyph and a non-damaging spell, like [I]hold person [/I]or [I]sleep[/I]. Most of those have a duration of a minute, so the guards would have a fairly low chance of even realizing that you've been affected (are you going to hire a guard to do nothing but watch the cell of a common prisoner who is only just technically 1st level, on the off chance that they try to escape but get zapped by the [I]glyph[/I]?). And then the spell is gone and your [I]second [/I]attempt won't be impeded. But if that's the case, why not handwave the "implausibility" of someone escaping from a podunk jail? And yes, in comparison to the vast majority of NPCs, 5th level is quite high. I'm guessing there's a chance you play a lot in the Realms, where high-level NPCs are a silver piece a dozen, but that's not the case in most other settings. Yeah, I hate to say it, but you really don't understand how sexism works. Unless you're trying to say that there's sexism in your games (because medieval mindset) [I]unless [/I]a woman can "prove" she's scary-powerful? Uh-huh. That mindset doesn't work in the real world (if it did, then there would be no displays of bigotry in places where concealed carry permits are a thing). It's not going to work in a game world either. If you have a world where there's no sexism, or no widespread, endemic sexism (or racism, or homophobia, or classism, or whatever type of bigotry you want), then it's a world that doesn't have a medieval mindset. Earlier you wrote "Also, what would he the point of playing medieval fantasy or even Renaissance fantasy and using modern world point of view?" This is [I]not [/I]a medieval fantasy or renaissance mindset at all. It's not even a [I]modern [/I]mindset. So you answered your own question. I am going to laugh hysterically for a few minutes now. You have a [I]very [/I]strange idea of what "respect" means. Who would be out of a job in a LG society. Did the PCs ask to look around for stuff? No? Then that's where passive Per comes into play. If it's not high enough, then oh well. But let's say you want them to at least have a chance to notice the [I]eye, [/I]since after all, action is better than inaction. So you pick the PC that makes the most sense to spot it and have them roll. The one with the highest passive Per. The one who is built for spotting things. The one who's been paranoid about being spied on. Something like that. Oddly, I [I]never [/I]get a wave of protest when I say "no, just them." And this still doesn't explain why you preroll. Why not roll right there and then? In my experience, players are [I]always [/I]expecting something to happen. The other option is expecting that [I]nothing [/I]will happen, and nobody wants to play in those games. And again, you can roll for the PC right then. It doesn't change the fact that most players don't like other people rolling [I]for [/I]them, though, but at least we can trust that you are [I]actually [/I]rolling and not just going along for the ride and hoping that you'll allow them to notice the whatever it is that's there to be noticed. Have you aware of the Geek Social Fallacies? I have to wonder if that player just figured that he had better go along because otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to play. [/QUOTE]
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