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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8440009" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Well, I can't find any evidence that shows frost burns killing people... ever. The closest I can get is the obvious "if your heart starts freezing you'll probably die" but that isn't frost burn. I've also got no idea what you mean by "coolants". Many of those are dangerous because they are toxic, not because they are cold. The ones that are dangerous because they are cold are in the -100's of degree area like I was talking about previously.</p><p></p><p>Additionally, if you are thinking of gangrene and sepsis caused by necrotic tissue that can be created by a frost burn... that isn't the frost burn killing you, that is the resultant infection killing you weeks later.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Can you point me to wear I said "it explodes"? I said it would damage it. There is a difference between "damage" and "exploded" I also said it would especially damage it where the iron or steel bars are in the stone. I would like to remind you that metal heats and cools at different rates than stone.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One of my links was powder, the other wasn't.</p><p></p><p>But yeah, talking about a liquid CO2 extinguisher was not anywhere near what I got from your original point.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, there is a difference between submerging in it for a biological being and being sprayed with it.</p><p></p><p>Additionally, it CAN harm glass, if there is any flaws in it. I would hope that you are aware that scientific professional grade glass instruments are not the same material as the glass you can buy at Walmart. That's why certain glass (like Pyrex) is safe to put in the oven and heat to 300 degrees, and some glass will break if you do that.</p><p></p><p>Not that most people who are using Glass with Liquid Nitrogen are using scientific tools that are also meant to be utilized over Bunsen Burners. Which can heat the material to hundreds of degrees.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or Eberron. But wow, that sure is convincing. It is the only setting we have except the four other settings. And "all" adventures take place there...</p><p></p><p>Except for Witchlight, or Candlekeep, or Descent into Avernus, or Frostmaiden, or Curse of Strahd, or Ghosts of Saltmarsh or Tomb of Annhilation... huh... that's seven... and aren't there only like 14 adventures that have been released. So, like half of them easily don't have "waterdeep" in mind at all? And I know for a fact that Storm King's Thunder and Rise of Tiamat have you traveling quite extensively. In fact, only two of the adventures actually address Waterdeep as a place you will definitely go. Which is a bit different than "all but two"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That would be the Player's Handbook, on page 159. To Quote:</p><p></p><p>"Hiring someone to cast a relatively common spell of 1st or 2nd level, such as cure wounds or identify, is easy enough<strong><em> in a city or town</em></strong>, and might cost 10 to 50 gold pieces (plus the cost of any expensive material components). <strong><em>Finding someone able and willing to cast a higher-level spell might involve traveling to a large city</em></strong>, perhaps one with a university or prominent temple."</p><p></p><p>Note how it talks about cities and towns, followed by large cities. Note how a small village is not a town, a city or a large city. Yes, I'm aware that the DM can change anything at any time for any reason, but since I would fully expect as a player that 3rd level magic would be found in large cities, not tiny villages, it would seem like the DM is altering the rules just to play the "gotcha" game.</p><p></p><p>So, does the DM get to decide? Sure. Do they have any reason other than petty spite to decide that 3rd level magic is now trivially found and utilized in small villages? Not really.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>EXACTLY! Ding ding ding! He gets it! Now, I'm sure you are about to tell me that this makes me wrong. However, let us not forget your original and actual claim. That the wizard was paying HIS taxes. Not that he was sent to pay some noble's taxes, but that they were his taxes being paid.</p><p></p><p>Something you finally acknowledged makes no sense.</p><p></p><p>Now, I'm sure you are going to start pivoting, making this all about a servant wizard being sent by a noble whose taxes he is paying off. Which was not your original example. In fact, originally before it was about taxes, it was that the Sheriff could trivially spend 200 gold to enchant the cell himself.</p><p></p><p>So, we've moved from "the sheriff is buying a wizard's services to enchant the cells in the tiny village" to -> "The sheriff is benefiting from the wizard paying his taxes in the process of enchanting the cells in the tiny village" to -> "The sheriff is benefiting from a wizard being sent to cover a noble's taxes by enchanting the cells in the tiny village"</p><p></p><p>And why are these cells in this tiny village being enchanted again? Oh, right, because potentially they could be used to house a spy or criminal. So they are willing to blow hundreds of gold on death trapping every cell in the region.</p><p></p><p>And all this, because I said a corrupt sheriff beat someone. Not that they ever went to jail, but that they were beat. But you aren't controlling or anything, trying to force your will upon a character that isn't yours. I mean you've only changed the location, the setting, the price, then reasoning, the situation, the people involved... You know... ALL OF IT.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except for the repeated truth that not all priests and acolytes have access to spellcasting, which is repeated over and over and over again in the PHB. And the fact that limiting it to the PHB you still have to immediately have a caveat of not counting the acolytes.</p><p></p><p>But sure, we have no historical evidence that powerful and influential people weren't forced to do menial labor that is a massive waste of resources. I mean, except for all the times that didn't happen in human history. I guess we have all of those.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And you literally have no proof that says the prices change when NPCs buy things. Nowhere, anywhere in the PHB or DMG does it state that you should discount prices for NPCs.</p><p></p><p>Again, you can homebrew it. But that doesn't make it the rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8440009, member: 6801228"] Well, I can't find any evidence that shows frost burns killing people... ever. The closest I can get is the obvious "if your heart starts freezing you'll probably die" but that isn't frost burn. I've also got no idea what you mean by "coolants". Many of those are dangerous because they are toxic, not because they are cold. The ones that are dangerous because they are cold are in the -100's of degree area like I was talking about previously. Additionally, if you are thinking of gangrene and sepsis caused by necrotic tissue that can be created by a frost burn... that isn't the frost burn killing you, that is the resultant infection killing you weeks later. Can you point me to wear I said "it explodes"? I said it would damage it. There is a difference between "damage" and "exploded" I also said it would especially damage it where the iron or steel bars are in the stone. I would like to remind you that metal heats and cools at different rates than stone. One of my links was powder, the other wasn't. But yeah, talking about a liquid CO2 extinguisher was not anywhere near what I got from your original point. Well, there is a difference between submerging in it for a biological being and being sprayed with it. Additionally, it CAN harm glass, if there is any flaws in it. I would hope that you are aware that scientific professional grade glass instruments are not the same material as the glass you can buy at Walmart. That's why certain glass (like Pyrex) is safe to put in the oven and heat to 300 degrees, and some glass will break if you do that. Not that most people who are using Glass with Liquid Nitrogen are using scientific tools that are also meant to be utilized over Bunsen Burners. Which can heat the material to hundreds of degrees. Or Eberron. But wow, that sure is convincing. It is the only setting we have except the four other settings. And "all" adventures take place there... Except for Witchlight, or Candlekeep, or Descent into Avernus, or Frostmaiden, or Curse of Strahd, or Ghosts of Saltmarsh or Tomb of Annhilation... huh... that's seven... and aren't there only like 14 adventures that have been released. So, like half of them easily don't have "waterdeep" in mind at all? And I know for a fact that Storm King's Thunder and Rise of Tiamat have you traveling quite extensively. In fact, only two of the adventures actually address Waterdeep as a place you will definitely go. Which is a bit different than "all but two" That would be the Player's Handbook, on page 159. To Quote: "Hiring someone to cast a relatively common spell of 1st or 2nd level, such as cure wounds or identify, is easy enough[B][I] in a city or town[/I][/B], and might cost 10 to 50 gold pieces (plus the cost of any expensive material components). [B][I]Finding someone able and willing to cast a higher-level spell might involve traveling to a large city[/I][/B], perhaps one with a university or prominent temple." Note how it talks about cities and towns, followed by large cities. Note how a small village is not a town, a city or a large city. Yes, I'm aware that the DM can change anything at any time for any reason, but since I would fully expect as a player that 3rd level magic would be found in large cities, not tiny villages, it would seem like the DM is altering the rules just to play the "gotcha" game. So, does the DM get to decide? Sure. Do they have any reason other than petty spite to decide that 3rd level magic is now trivially found and utilized in small villages? Not really. EXACTLY! Ding ding ding! He gets it! Now, I'm sure you are about to tell me that this makes me wrong. However, let us not forget your original and actual claim. That the wizard was paying HIS taxes. Not that he was sent to pay some noble's taxes, but that they were his taxes being paid. Something you finally acknowledged makes no sense. Now, I'm sure you are going to start pivoting, making this all about a servant wizard being sent by a noble whose taxes he is paying off. Which was not your original example. In fact, originally before it was about taxes, it was that the Sheriff could trivially spend 200 gold to enchant the cell himself. So, we've moved from "the sheriff is buying a wizard's services to enchant the cells in the tiny village" to -> "The sheriff is benefiting from the wizard paying his taxes in the process of enchanting the cells in the tiny village" to -> "The sheriff is benefiting from a wizard being sent to cover a noble's taxes by enchanting the cells in the tiny village" And why are these cells in this tiny village being enchanted again? Oh, right, because potentially they could be used to house a spy or criminal. So they are willing to blow hundreds of gold on death trapping every cell in the region. And all this, because I said a corrupt sheriff beat someone. Not that they ever went to jail, but that they were beat. But you aren't controlling or anything, trying to force your will upon a character that isn't yours. I mean you've only changed the location, the setting, the price, then reasoning, the situation, the people involved... You know... ALL OF IT. Except for the repeated truth that not all priests and acolytes have access to spellcasting, which is repeated over and over and over again in the PHB. And the fact that limiting it to the PHB you still have to immediately have a caveat of not counting the acolytes. But sure, we have no historical evidence that powerful and influential people weren't forced to do menial labor that is a massive waste of resources. I mean, except for all the times that didn't happen in human history. I guess we have all of those. And you literally have no proof that says the prices change when NPCs buy things. Nowhere, anywhere in the PHB or DMG does it state that you should discount prices for NPCs. Again, you can homebrew it. But that doesn't make it the rules. [/QUOTE]
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