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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7463996" data-attributes="member: 996">It seems reasonably hostile to D&amp;D, too, describing both as &quot;incoherent.&quot;&nbsp;In this particular instance I was posting my impressions of how the boards tend to (miss)use Forge terminology.&nbsp; And, no, I have made a small effort, but never found much sense in the Forge.&nbsp; The Threefold Model made a little sense to me back in the day, but it still mainly came off as intellectualizing the essentially bogus Role v Roll 'debate.'&nbsp;RQ was notably more Realistic than its contemporaries, owing to the authors participation in the SCA giving them significantly more clue than EGG's perusing of museum polearms or whatever got him so fixated on 'em.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I consider RQ influencial in being such an early 'skill-based' system, and BRP for being the first formal 'core system,' where the consumer was giving a copy of the core bits.&nbsp; An innovation d20 would be notable for 20 years later. Y'know what'd also help with that?&nbsp; Not making a 'Gamist' box and sticking folks in it, in the first place.&nbsp; 

 'Railroading' or linear play is a reliable way of getting a specific story out on the table, in which the GM takes most of the responsibility for coming up with and 'telling' the story.&nbsp; In D&amp;D, which as the gateway to the hobby is also it's de-facto gatekeeper, the game has generally (TSR era &amp; 5e) relied heavily on the DM to make /everything/ work, so, of course, it's natural if you want a focus on story, to expect the DM to make that happen.


 It kinda is.&nbsp; In a 'sandbox' you're free to just go somewhere else, maybe come back to that door later (and not just in the sense of go scour the rest of the dungeon for the right key).&nbsp; In a linear adventure, the next step is behind that door, so until you get through it (just break out the ax, dude), you're 'stuck.'&nbsp; In a 'fail forward' paradigm, not being able to open the door gets you (with some added difficulty/consequence) to where getting through the door would have (for instance, while you're unsuccessfully tyring to open the door, an enemy patrol you were hoping to avoid comes through it, and you have to silence them quickly or the jig is up).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7463996, member: 996"] It seems reasonably hostile to D&D, too, describing both as "incoherent." In this particular instance I was posting my impressions of how the boards tend to (miss)use Forge terminology. And, no, I have made a small effort, but never found much sense in the Forge. The Threefold Model made a little sense to me back in the day, but it still mainly came off as intellectualizing the essentially bogus Role v Roll 'debate.' RQ was notably more Realistic than its contemporaries, owing to the authors participation in the SCA giving them significantly more clue than EGG's perusing of museum polearms or whatever got him so fixated on 'em. ;) I consider RQ influencial in being such an early 'skill-based' system, and BRP for being the first formal 'core system,' where the consumer was giving a copy of the core bits. An innovation d20 would be notable for 20 years later. [indent] Y'know what'd also help with that? Not making a 'Gamist' box and sticking folks in it, in the first place. 'Railroading' or linear play is a reliable way of getting a specific story out on the table, in which the GM takes most of the responsibility for coming up with and 'telling' the story. In D&D, which as the gateway to the hobby is also it's de-facto gatekeeper, the game has generally (TSR era & 5e) relied heavily on the DM to make /everything/ work, so, of course, it's natural if you want a focus on story, to expect the DM to make that happen. It kinda is. In a 'sandbox' you're free to just go somewhere else, maybe come back to that door later (and not just in the sense of go scour the rest of the dungeon for the right key). In a linear adventure, the next step is behind that door, so until you get through it (just break out the ax, dude), you're 'stuck.' In a 'fail forward' paradigm, not being able to open the door gets you (with some added difficulty/consequence) to where getting through the door would have (for instance, while you're unsuccessfully tyring to open the door, an enemy patrol you were hoping to avoid comes through it, and you have to silence them quickly or the jig is up).[/indent] [/QUOTE]

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