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The roots of 4e exposed?
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<blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7471809" data-attributes="member: 6716779"><p>I think something like half the PF players have tickled back to 5E, if WoTC had killed Paizo via a lawsuit they would piss off their players even more. They would not magically go and play 4E they would either stick with 3.5 or just stop playing.</p><p></p><p> They would not have been their to playtest 5E, neither would the good will.</p><p></p><p> So odds are they would have no D&D, 4E would have still tanked, Paizo might not exist, and I suspect a good chunk of the 200k+ playtesters would not have been active.</p><p></p><p> They did the best thing they could- make something better than 4E and Pathfinder, seems to have paid off. I'm not a Paizo die hard, dont even use their stuff anymore but I went with them up to a point because of the good will and quality of Dungeon over the stupid things WoTC were doing. My group and 2 of my players other groups all bailed so they lost around a dozen players there and that seemed to be replicated across the nation and the USA. Playing 4E was not much of an option there were virtually no DMs for it after 2009.I'm sure they existed somewhere but locally and at the university RPG club they were gone. </p><p></p><p> If Paizo was not there I would have continued my house rule of 3.5 to make it play more like AD&D, the OSR stuff would still exist so if I burned out on 3.x still I would play 2E or OSR stuff now. My D&D would be ACKs, 2E and C&C. If they got rid of the OSR 3.5 and TSR D&D would still exist.</p><p></p><p> For mass market penetration 4E was not it, you need a simpler game for the casuals who are not going to put up with hour long battles and the complexity of 4E PC's (some wargamers might casuals no). 5E may not be it either but its doing better than any of the other D&Ds since the early 80's at least.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zardnaar, post: 7471809, member: 6716779"] I think something like half the PF players have tickled back to 5E, if WoTC had killed Paizo via a lawsuit they would piss off their players even more. They would not magically go and play 4E they would either stick with 3.5 or just stop playing. They would not have been their to playtest 5E, neither would the good will. So odds are they would have no D&D, 4E would have still tanked, Paizo might not exist, and I suspect a good chunk of the 200k+ playtesters would not have been active. They did the best thing they could- make something better than 4E and Pathfinder, seems to have paid off. I'm not a Paizo die hard, dont even use their stuff anymore but I went with them up to a point because of the good will and quality of Dungeon over the stupid things WoTC were doing. My group and 2 of my players other groups all bailed so they lost around a dozen players there and that seemed to be replicated across the nation and the USA. Playing 4E was not much of an option there were virtually no DMs for it after 2009.I'm sure they existed somewhere but locally and at the university RPG club they were gone. If Paizo was not there I would have continued my house rule of 3.5 to make it play more like AD&D, the OSR stuff would still exist so if I burned out on 3.x still I would play 2E or OSR stuff now. My D&D would be ACKs, 2E and C&C. If they got rid of the OSR 3.5 and TSR D&D would still exist. For mass market penetration 4E was not it, you need a simpler game for the casuals who are not going to put up with hour long battles and the complexity of 4E PC's (some wargamers might casuals no). 5E may not be it either but its doing better than any of the other D&Ds since the early 80's at least. [/QUOTE]
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