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<blockquote data-quote="cowpie" data-source="post: 5374307" data-attributes="member: 98840">I play a lot of the new &quot;indie&quot; rpgs that touch on exactly this analysis of rpg systems. For example, Ron Edwards (designer of Sorcerer) is one of many indie designers that noted that game rules tend to focus on following a specific &quot;creative agenda&quot; that guide the gameplay experience down certain directions. &nbsp;By identifying the 'nuts and bolts' of what these things are in RPGs, the indie people have designed a bunch of new rpgs that deliver narrative storytelling experiences. Instead of trying to modify D&amp;D out of the box to force the game engine to be &quot;storytelling&quot; (D&amp;D's game engine isn't designed to do this), the indie designers just make a new game with rules that are set up to play like out like an actual fantasy novel.&nbsp;The players have a rap session where you conciously decide what kind of game you feel like playing, and then have fun playing it. They can pick the right game for the right experience. &nbsp;If you want to play a strategy game that has you work together as a team, managing resources (spells, powers, hit points, equipment), using battle tactics, and so on, to beat a set of challenges in a pre-prepped scenario, then play D&amp;D. The whole game engine in based around this. &nbsp;If you want to play a game where the players explore a series of scenes in a setting they love, through a pre-prepped plotline, where they &quot;puzzle out&quot; a scenes plot keys to trigger the GM's next big scene, then play WOD, Traveller, GURPS, Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek (etc). These are &quot;simulationist&quot; game engines.&nbsp;If you want to play a game that has all the players (GM and Players) designing the story and plot as they go along, using game engines that support this, then play an indie narrative game. These games are really good for playing RPGs that play out like the plot of Game of Thrones, or Lord of the Rings, just be prepared to play in a game with no hit points, no encumbrance, and no Monster Stats.&nbsp; A lot of them play out like the TV show &quot;whose line is it anyway&quot; but with dice and rpg rules.&nbsp;(This is a good thing BTW, because it's no fun when you're trying to make your D&amp;D game recreate the Lord of the Rings, and 1/2 way through the first session, Frodo fails his saving throw and is slain by a giant rat. Real dramatic. You could spend hours modding D&amp;D to be something it's not, but why not play &quot;Prime Time Adventures&quot; or &quot;Burning Wheel&quot;, and save the D&amp;D for the butt-kicking 'beat the dungeon' style games).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="cowpie, post: 5374307, member: 98840"] I play a lot of the new "indie" rpgs that touch on exactly this analysis of rpg systems. For example, Ron Edwards (designer of Sorcerer) is one of many indie designers that noted that game rules tend to focus on following a specific "creative agenda" that guide the gameplay experience down certain directions. By identifying the 'nuts and bolts' of what these things are in RPGs, the indie people have designed a bunch of new rpgs that deliver narrative storytelling experiences. Instead of trying to modify D&D out of the box to force the game engine to be "storytelling" (D&D's game engine isn't designed to do this), the indie designers just make a new game with rules that are set up to play like out like an actual fantasy novel. The players have a rap session where you conciously decide what kind of game you feel like playing, and then have fun playing it. They can pick the right game for the right experience. If you want to play a strategy game that has you work together as a team, managing resources (spells, powers, hit points, equipment), using battle tactics, and so on, to beat a set of challenges in a pre-prepped scenario, then play D&D. The whole game engine in based around this. If you want to play a game where the players explore a series of scenes in a setting they love, through a pre-prepped plotline, where they "puzzle out" a scenes plot keys to trigger the GM's next big scene, then play WOD, Traveller, GURPS, Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek (etc). These are "simulationist" game engines. If you want to play a game that has all the players (GM and Players) designing the story and plot as they go along, using game engines that support this, then play an indie narrative game. These games are really good for playing RPGs that play out like the plot of Game of Thrones, or Lord of the Rings, just be prepared to play in a game with no hit points, no encumbrance, and no Monster Stats. A lot of them play out like the TV show "whose line is it anyway" but with dice and rpg rules. (This is a good thing BTW, because it's no fun when you're trying to make your D&D game recreate the Lord of the Rings, and 1/2 way through the first session, Frodo fails his saving throw and is slain by a giant rat. Real dramatic. You could spend hours modding D&D to be something it's not, but why not play "Prime Time Adventures" or "Burning Wheel", and save the D&D for the butt-kicking 'beat the dungeon' style games). [/QUOTE]

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