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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Drifter Bob" data-source="post: 1533353" data-attributes="member: 17723">I don't mean to be rude, but I think this is a rather horrible mentality, wihch is IMO exactly the sort of thing which really ruins a lot of rpg's in general and D&D especially in particular.   First of all, the game is really about storytelling, it is not a competition between the players and the DM.  Second of all, the players really have no business knowing that much of what is going on 'behind the curtain', such as all the minute details of how the NPC got his or her skills.The players have a reasonable expectation of some consistency in the rules, but the rules DO serve the game, they are there to resolve the conflicts which inevitably emerge in any game of 'lets pretend'.  But when the obsession with the rules is taken to such a degree that every player is a rules lawyer bickering about every single issue, it detracts from and can frequently derail the game, which at it's best is a fun shared storytelling experience.I feel that too many D&D players these days have come to fetishise the "logic" behind the core rules in particular to a degree which is far, far beyond the actual internal consistency of the rules themselves.  I mean, come on, we are talking about combat systems with double bladed axes.  'Realism' doesn't even enter the picture, and internal consistency is really just a barely maintained patina which overlays the development of the game.  They did a good job making 3.x more rational in general, but lets face it, there is a lot more rationalization than logic in there as far as I'm concerned.Generally these days when people are looking to join RPG's that I'm running, I tend to screen out a lot of very experienced players, because too many of them are these munchkin rules lawyer types.   Give me either a newby or an old-school player who values imaginatoin, role playing (remember that folks?) and having fun over bickering about rules any day.I will add, I think this actually a wierd male thing.  I like to have a lot of females in my groups, and I find that they don't get as hung up on canonical debates about the rules and the bloody underying philosophy.  Men have seemingly always had this tendency toward a form of autism, where they draw comfort from endlessly analyzing unto death statistics and minute irrelevant details about some favorite subject matter... the kinds of guys who might have known baseball statistics in a different part of the world now obssess on D&D rules.  I think this is a turnoff to a lot of women and frankly, to non-geeks.  D&D is not meant to be such a complicated game, all those rules are there to guide you in case you can't think your way out of some conundrum ... it's a bunch of worst case scenarios and cover-all-cases hand holding.  Try using your imagination, you'll find it can soar high above those rulebooks....Anyway, thats the way I see it.DB</blockquote>

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