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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 4878533" data-attributes="member: 80487">Yes, although some people would be loathe to say, "We use a skill system". As long as the factors are disjointed enough not to be truly systematic -- as in old D&D, with its scattered d6, d20 and d% rolls -- they can ignore the fact that they have about as many set rules for things as are commonly used in some "skill system" games.Some associate the concept with artificially limiting what characters can do. "We don't want a riding skill in the game, because then our characters would start falling off their horses." That's an extreme objection, because the question of when to require a skill check can be answered just as reasonably as when to require an ad hoc factor. However, a basic problem with many limited-resource systems is evident in how some people (erroneously, IMO) treat thief-class functions as barring other characters from being sneaky or alert or dealing with traps.Then there's the worry that any formalism inevitably entails a long list of quotidian ratings with associated rules to look up and apply. "We'll make camp here." "Give me checks on Tent Raising, Wood Chopping, Fire Starting, Water Fetching ..." "Can't we just overbear and pummel instead?"There's a leeriness of rules-lawyering, as if players are going to start dictating absurd probabilities to a hapless GM. The real bottom line in most cases is that players' control is more illusory than real. With or without a number on a character sheet, it is at the end of the day still up to the GM to set a reasonable probability for a given outcome.The idea that "roll-playing" must displace role-playing has some foundation in recent trends, but skill ratings (and even more complex systems) have been around a lot longer. It is not the presence of certain mechanisms, but the participants' relationship with them, that decisively drives a game in that direction.Some implementations, especially in combination, can exert a lot of pressure of the sort that is understandably contrary to certain approaches. Lumping together everything that fits a very vague description (i.e., "skill system") is not very helpful, though.</blockquote>

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