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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Sameness Of The Six Abilities Over Time
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<blockquote data-quote="Kaodi" data-source="post: 7802623" data-attributes="member: 1231"><p>I think we may have talked about this in one of the big PF2 threads but I do not remember where and I do not want to sift though all of that and maybe it would be better for it to be its own thread anyway.</p><p></p><p>First and foremost I rather like the new stat system, and I am not necessarily looking to change it. But I do think it has one notable shortcoming: everyone's ix ability scores are going to be more or less the same in the end. This is perhaps not necessarily as clear in theory crafting where you just imagine what the "end point" is going to look like (even though it is not that different there either). But when you think about what <em>playing</em> the game is actually going to be like it becomes more clear: there is not really any point in raising an ability score to an odd number at level 15, and in many cases probably even level 10, because you need 9 or 10 levels to raise an ability score past 18 to an effective level. In a system where stacking +1 bonuses are hard to come by it is always going to be better to put a boost in a sub-18 ability where you will actually get some use out of it for the next 5 levels and see some improvement over the last 5. </p><p></p><p>Because of how this system works I also think it is important in PF2 to try and be upfront about how long a game is expected to last so that no one makes an ability score odd when they will not get the chance to make it even later. If you are planning on playing until past level 10 then it makes sense to have a 19 at level 5, but if not, then again, you might as well put that boost somewhere it is going to actually affect the game (I was sort of thinking about this in particular because of the Knights of Everflame promotional game, where everyone is level 5 and is going to more or less stay that way). Basically I think there are two optimal end <em>game</em> stat distributions, 20 18 18 18 18 16, where you get that 20 in your key ability at level 10, or maybe 20 20 18 18 18 12, where you get both of those 20s at level 15. But unless maybe you are playing a campaign where you expect to keep your level 20 characters for a long period of time, just without the level ups, there is not point in making an ability 19 or 21 at level 15. </p><p></p><p>This was all less of an issue in PF1 because of the way ability damage worked. And if you are one of those purists who likes to roll 4d6 for abilities you may get a bit more mileage out of boosting odd ability scores because when you boost a 17 it becomes 19 rather than an 18. But overall this is the reality for PF2. As I said I am not looking to change it per se. It is just a part of the system that people should be thinking about when they plan their characters ability scores.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kaodi, post: 7802623, member: 1231"] I think we may have talked about this in one of the big PF2 threads but I do not remember where and I do not want to sift though all of that and maybe it would be better for it to be its own thread anyway. First and foremost I rather like the new stat system, and I am not necessarily looking to change it. But I do think it has one notable shortcoming: everyone's ix ability scores are going to be more or less the same in the end. This is perhaps not necessarily as clear in theory crafting where you just imagine what the "end point" is going to look like (even though it is not that different there either). But when you think about what [i]playing[/i] the game is actually going to be like it becomes more clear: there is not really any point in raising an ability score to an odd number at level 15, and in many cases probably even level 10, because you need 9 or 10 levels to raise an ability score past 18 to an effective level. In a system where stacking +1 bonuses are hard to come by it is always going to be better to put a boost in a sub-18 ability where you will actually get some use out of it for the next 5 levels and see some improvement over the last 5. Because of how this system works I also think it is important in PF2 to try and be upfront about how long a game is expected to last so that no one makes an ability score odd when they will not get the chance to make it even later. If you are planning on playing until past level 10 then it makes sense to have a 19 at level 5, but if not, then again, you might as well put that boost somewhere it is going to actually affect the game (I was sort of thinking about this in particular because of the Knights of Everflame promotional game, where everyone is level 5 and is going to more or less stay that way). Basically I think there are two optimal end [i]game[/i] stat distributions, 20 18 18 18 18 16, where you get that 20 in your key ability at level 10, or maybe 20 20 18 18 18 12, where you get both of those 20s at level 15. But unless maybe you are playing a campaign where you expect to keep your level 20 characters for a long period of time, just without the level ups, there is not point in making an ability 19 or 21 at level 15. This was all less of an issue in PF1 because of the way ability damage worked. And if you are one of those purists who likes to roll 4d6 for abilities you may get a bit more mileage out of boosting odd ability scores because when you boost a 17 it becomes 19 rather than an 18. But overall this is the reality for PF2. As I said I am not looking to change it per se. It is just a part of the system that people should be thinking about when they plan their characters ability scores. [/QUOTE]
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