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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
"The Savage Frontier (DR 1358)" - Exploring and expanding the origins of The North
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<blockquote data-quote="Yora" data-source="post: 8846895" data-attributes="member: 6670763"><p>I don't think the regions have any kind of structures of states. But I do see them as different countries. Geographic areas with their own local environmental and cultural character.</p><p></p><p>My overall perception of the Forgotten Realms from the AD&D material of both 1st and 2nd edition is that the entire northern half is the actual "campaign setting", and the whole southern half a neighboring region from which human civilization originated. It's there, it's big, it's powerful, but described only in the most vague terms. Southern Sword Coast got a bit more than the rest over time, but still very sparse compared to the whole northern half of Faerûn.</p><p></p><p>In the south, we have a lot of proper kingdoms. I think the Shaar and the Border Kingdoms are the only places without a unified state. In the north, the eastern sections also have states. Impiltur is some kind of confederation of cities and Thesk is mostly just tiny villages scattered over a big plain with no specific borders, but they also each have a king. Even the Rashemi have something in the way of a unified government.</p><p></p><p>The phenomenon of city states is mostly found in the Northwest and central North, where the only kingdom is Cormyr. Sembia seems to have some sense of nationhood as well, though I believe there is no single ruler. It really is the Moonsea, the Western Heartlands, and the Savage Frontier were independent city states in the wilderness are the default form of state.</p><p></p><p>And the first edition material states very clearly that these regions are in a phase of transition and settlement. No specific time frames are given, but it very much sounds that these cities are not very old yet. Later they added timelines of historical events to the setting, and I believe in the process they made many of the cities way too old.</p><p></p><p>And there is precedent for relatively major trade cities in remote regions. With 13th century Europe being given as a reference, the free city states of the Hanseatic League and the various principalities that would later become Russia are coming to mind. And Iceland didn't have a ruler until the 1260s. Of course, there were various kingdoms and powerful duchies throughout the region as well and it wasn't all free cities surrounded by wilderness. But the overall idea is not that outlandish. Especially when seen in a kind of Wild West context.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yora, post: 8846895, member: 6670763"] I don't think the regions have any kind of structures of states. But I do see them as different countries. Geographic areas with their own local environmental and cultural character. My overall perception of the Forgotten Realms from the AD&D material of both 1st and 2nd edition is that the entire northern half is the actual "campaign setting", and the whole southern half a neighboring region from which human civilization originated. It's there, it's big, it's powerful, but described only in the most vague terms. Southern Sword Coast got a bit more than the rest over time, but still very sparse compared to the whole northern half of Faerûn. In the south, we have a lot of proper kingdoms. I think the Shaar and the Border Kingdoms are the only places without a unified state. In the north, the eastern sections also have states. Impiltur is some kind of confederation of cities and Thesk is mostly just tiny villages scattered over a big plain with no specific borders, but they also each have a king. Even the Rashemi have something in the way of a unified government. The phenomenon of city states is mostly found in the Northwest and central North, where the only kingdom is Cormyr. Sembia seems to have some sense of nationhood as well, though I believe there is no single ruler. It really is the Moonsea, the Western Heartlands, and the Savage Frontier were independent city states in the wilderness are the default form of state. And the first edition material states very clearly that these regions are in a phase of transition and settlement. No specific time frames are given, but it very much sounds that these cities are not very old yet. Later they added timelines of historical events to the setting, and I believe in the process they made many of the cities way too old. And there is precedent for relatively major trade cities in remote regions. With 13th century Europe being given as a reference, the free city states of the Hanseatic League and the various principalities that would later become Russia are coming to mind. And Iceland didn't have a ruler until the 1260s. Of course, there were various kingdoms and powerful duchies throughout the region as well and it wasn't all free cities surrounded by wilderness. But the overall idea is not that outlandish. Especially when seen in a kind of Wild West context. [/QUOTE]
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"The Savage Frontier (DR 1358)" - Exploring and expanding the origins of The North
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