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Message: <blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 6081901" data-attributes="member: 85870">So, last night my secondary gaming group got together after a long (LONG) hiatus. For my primary group, I'm GM-ing Savage Worlds with some close friends that's just a flat out blast. It's somewhat casual, but the group has some great character concepts, and are really engaging with the story and world. For my secondary group, I'm a player in a GURPS campaign. And while the players all have decent character concepts, last night was proof positive to me that this is a group that just loves to psychologically handcuff itself. Two of the players are flat-out two of the biggest power gamers I've ever seen. One is a casual gamer who shows up, has his character ready, and enjoys playing, but is really just there to hang out with his buddies. The fourth player is an RPG newb just getting his feet wet (and then there's me, who prefers more story- and character-driven roleplaying). I've just never, ever seen a group that seems to want something very specific from its RPG experience, and then does everything possible to prevent themselves from getting the experience that they want. This is a group that deep down is just dying to play a heroic, gamist RPG that's primarily focused on combat effectiveness and battle tactics (yup, as much as I might groan inwardly, these guys were tailor-made to play D&D 4e--yet all of them have universally stated that they loathe D&D 4e).For some reason, the GM and the two power gamers are just totally in love with GURPS---widely regarded as one of the most gritty, "simulationist" RPG of all time. And I've somewhat figured out why the two power gamers are the way they are---they've been playing GURPS for so long they've just decided that to not die, they basically have to come nigh-close unto cheating the system to stay alive. These are guys that will take a hundred points of disadvantages, basically relegating their characters to be mumbling, psychotic sociopaths, just so they can ensure that they can stay alive and get into combat all the time.And as a (mostly) outside observer (the two main players and GM have been gaming together for over 15 years; I've only been playing with them for a year and a half), I'm just baffled by how "gamist" their "inner playstyle" is, yet they've somehow latched on to one of, if not the worst system to express that desire. I can't count how many times one of the two power gamer players has said something like the following within 60 seconds of each other: 1: "Dude, my character is so uber, I rock in battle!"2: "Dude, I'm not going in there, I'll get destroyed. One little hit, and you're gone." I don't know if this fully represents the way he says it, but it's just this total 180 degree mood swing. One minute he's wanting to brag endlessly about how well he's optimized his character, the next he's trying to find every possible way to ensure that if he absolutely has to fight, that victory is assured (because if it's not, you probably die). Here's the other thing---We just made the switch from GURPS 3e to GURPS 4e, which does give them a few more "gamist" hooks for combat, but as I watch the way they choose their combat options, I'm seriously thinking, "Good golly, this is just D&D with a much slower, clunkier combat system." Battles were already slow in GURPS 3, in GURPS 4, where every combat maneuver requires calculating four or five separate modifiers PER ROLL (and there's usually three or four rolls for player turn), it's just gone to a craaaaawwl. They want to enjoy the tactics and thrill of combat, but then use a system that basically ensures that combats last forever, ensuring that they never get to have more than one combat per session. And even when fighting, each player gets less actual "screen time" because turns take so damn long. Yeah. I'm just baffled. I don't know if anyone else has seen something like this, I just thought I'd share and see what people think. Anybody else had an experience with a group like this?</blockquote>

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