The science of T20

Kilmore

First Post
For years, Traveller has been known as a premier sci-fi RPG. Over the years, there has been a lot of design sequences that have been based in real science (or at least it seems to the uneducated me).

But over the years, there has been an effort to keep later editions in jibe with the classic material, and in that time, science has marched on.

So how much of the modern Traveller is still based on the latest "science" and how much is "fiction"?

Well, obviously the aliens and the jump drives are fiction, but what about the vehicles, weapons, and planets?

I've also asked this on the www.space.com science-fiction forum, and I will post any answers they may have.
 

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Really, I think only the Traveller: The New Era stuff tried to be real science. Maybe Gurps Traveller. (Don't know, don't want to know about it)

Most of the tech in Classic Traveller is from H. Beam Piper's novels from the 50s. He was actually remarkably prescient when it comes to people (what's going on in the world today is straight out of one of his novels) but when it came to technology, he was pretty much behind the curve when it came to computers and weapons and manufacturing (which has a result of making spaceships very very expensive, and interstellar trade somewhat difficult).

T20 is pretty much just like Classic Traveller in most things.

I would love to see an updated verison of Fire Fusion and Steel for T20.
 

trancejeremy said:
but when it came to technology, he was pretty much behind the curve when it came to computers and weapons and manufacturing .

Hmm, so how is Traveller behind the curve, then? I just want to make sure no-one's trotting out that old Murphy's Rules cartoon about 'one ton computers', is all :)

Probably the best book for starships, if you can find it, is the Megatraveller Starhip Operations Manual. It gives a good in depth background for all the starship functions and technology.
 

Generally, the science in T20 is realistic, but the technology isn't. For example, planets are generally scientifically plausible*, and travel times are very realistic for spacecraft with the supposed acceleration traveller vehicles have. However, Traveller vehicles use a very rubbery sci-fi approach to speed. (But then, I can understand why... I tried to implement a more realistic drive system in a SF homebrew I had... rocket science is not a lot of fun...)

However, I must speak up and say that I find this classic old carnard about Traveller computers to be entirely out to lunch. If you really think your laptop is going to run a starship, you REALLY need to work in the military or aerospace inudstry few years. Real life ships and spacecraft have complicated sensors and distributed control systems that do not obey Moore's law.

* - There are some exceptions. In the old CT/MT generation system, if you used the "retrofit" approach to detailing systems, you could end up with some wierd stuff.
 
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a "realistic" space campaign would be confined to one system unless you allow FTL travel and then you are not "realistic again". I guess you could use time dilation to argue travel to nearby stars but how you could do this for stars beyond a couple of light years is starting to get far fetched.

If you don't know Einstein showed that time and space are relative. as you move faster, your clock slows down relative to someone else who is not moving. You can look this up on the web. do a google search on special relativity.

The other fact that makes science fiction "fiction" is how does one comunicate faster then light? This makes it hard to have intersystem commerce when it takes years to get a radio message.

Traveller is better then Star Wars or Star Trek but it is far from real science as we know it.

In fact, unless there are wormholes or something else strange, I doubt that we will ever have anything like the tech in your favorate space opera.
 

bolen said:
a "realistic" space campaign would be confined to one system unless you allow FTL travel and then you are not "realistic again".

That's debatable. A lot of very interesting articles by theoretical physicists suggests some ways that FTL may be possible. Relativity itself suggests that wormholes can exist.

Of course it's not EASY, and no SF RPG currently in print does this.

You could also run a game with STL travel between stars, with sleeping colonists or whatnot.

If you don't know Einstein showed that time and space are relative. as you move faster, your clock slows down relative to someone else who is not moving. You can look this up on the web. do a google search on special relativity.

Most non-space opera sf that feature FTL does not simply assume that if you just push the gas hard enough, you are going to faster than light. This is really not the big issue.

The big issue is (also implied by relativity) if you can travel FTL, time travel is implicitly possible. If you assume some theoretical abberation that prevents this (or accept time travel and all the bugbears that go with it), you can make a fairly realistic go at a setting with FTL. Again, no published game does this that I am aware of and most hard SF games are happy to go with some black-box hyperdrive.

The other fact that makes science fiction "fiction" is how does one comunicate faster then light? This makes it hard to have intersystem commerce when it takes years to get a radio message.

Heh. You have just stumbled on the premise of Traveller. Hard or no, it is not explicitly necessary to have FTL radio comms to have commerce. After all, we had trade on earth in the age of sail long before Marconi was born.

Easy FTL comms make it that much harder to dismiss the time travel bugbear. If you can just radio your friend and tell him to duck before the bullet that killed him hits him, then you have instant causality problems. If you assume that the requirements for FTL travel are somewhat more baroque, you can explain that while the theory says one thing, in practice it doesn't work that way.

That may sound laughable, but don't dismiss it. There is a property of subatomic particles formed in pairs that when one particle is forced to assume a certain spin, the paired particle instantly assumes the opposite spin. This is demonstratable fact. However, it is also implicit in the nature of the laws of physics governing these interaction that you will never be able to send intelligible in use this principle to make an FTL radio. (There are SF stories to this effect, though.)

Despite this, scientists have been able to send intelligible information faster than light. Using a quantum tunnel effect, they were able to send a symphony and some multiple of the speed of light... over a short distance, enough so that any macroscopic violation of causality is impossible.


In fact, unless there are wormholes or something else strange,[/b]

That there is "something else strange" is pretty much an assumption of any go at FTL in SF.

And as for wormholes, most theoretical physicists are convinced that they do exist in some form... just not necessarily a usable form. :) (A bit fewer actually beleive that if you have the right stuff, you may even be able to use one...)
 
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Psion said:
And as for wormholes, most theoretical physicists are convinced that they do exist in some form... just not necessarily a usable form. :) (A bit fewer actually beleive that if you have the right stuff, you may even be able to use one...)

I think the most fascinating stardrive I've seen in an RPG was the 'stutterwarp' from Traveller 2300. It made use of the electron tunnelling phenomenon, but made every atom of the ship do this in concert. Flick it once and Boom, you moved n distance (which was, like, a few meters). Flicking it very rapidly moved the ship in small increments at great speed, simulating FTL travel but not breaking the speed of light.

I think I found out later that some book also used that, but I cannot remember title or author.
 


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