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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8254958" data-attributes="member: 6801252"><p>What's interesting is that while I understand its very popular and a lot of people enjoy it, what you identify is kind of my biggest beef with 5e. The 'who needs genre?' approach just makes it feel like it does everything badly (for me.) This is of course my personal experience, and I'm fully aware I'm discussing the most popular game on the market:</p><p></p><p>The game isn't fair and logical so its lack of balance is unfun since its always a headache to have a challenge or pace an adventure and spread the spotlight around or hold back on character building, nor is it good for simulation because it doesn't have systems do most of the stuff I kind of need it to do, its not particularly great at storytelling either the way a more 'narrative' game might be. I was on the 'but its super hackable, you can make it whatever you need it to be!' train for a while but then drowned in the amount of work that actually was-- trying to redesign the item system from the ground up to make them more accessible, trying to curate options for my players to enjoy their character building more.</p><p></p><p>Most of the reason it doesn't do anything super well, is because it cut those elements away based off the idea that they were unnecessary or 'unfun' (what would a one size fits all idea of unfun even mean?) this is going to come off as fighting words, but its like a game designed by my worst players, where 'how about lets not?' is the default answer to anything that could add more engagement at the cost of them having to pay attention, like, the kind of player that used to boot up Skyrim on his laptop. Any joy in my games during our 5e era was me fighting the system up hill to make it work, curating homebrew content, and so forth, or would have been better served by cups of coffee instead of dice.</p><p></p><p>It makes me kind of want to ask if the goal was "we'll remove anything that gets in the way of fun and just make it a game for people who want to get together and have an enjoyable time with friends" then why is the game so acutely <em>unfun</em>, but I know the answer is that for a lot of people, its plenty fun, and that not every game is right for every person.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 8254958, member: 6801252"] What's interesting is that while I understand its very popular and a lot of people enjoy it, what you identify is kind of my biggest beef with 5e. The 'who needs genre?' approach just makes it feel like it does everything badly (for me.) This is of course my personal experience, and I'm fully aware I'm discussing the most popular game on the market: The game isn't fair and logical so its lack of balance is unfun since its always a headache to have a challenge or pace an adventure and spread the spotlight around or hold back on character building, nor is it good for simulation because it doesn't have systems do most of the stuff I kind of need it to do, its not particularly great at storytelling either the way a more 'narrative' game might be. I was on the 'but its super hackable, you can make it whatever you need it to be!' train for a while but then drowned in the amount of work that actually was-- trying to redesign the item system from the ground up to make them more accessible, trying to curate options for my players to enjoy their character building more. Most of the reason it doesn't do anything super well, is because it cut those elements away based off the idea that they were unnecessary or 'unfun' (what would a one size fits all idea of unfun even mean?) this is going to come off as fighting words, but its like a game designed by my worst players, where 'how about lets not?' is the default answer to anything that could add more engagement at the cost of them having to pay attention, like, the kind of player that used to boot up Skyrim on his laptop. Any joy in my games during our 5e era was me fighting the system up hill to make it work, curating homebrew content, and so forth, or would have been better served by cups of coffee instead of dice. It makes me kind of want to ask if the goal was "we'll remove anything that gets in the way of fun and just make it a game for people who want to get together and have an enjoyable time with friends" then why is the game so acutely [I]unfun[/I], but I know the answer is that for a lot of people, its plenty fun, and that not every game is right for every person. [/QUOTE]
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