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<blockquote data-quote="nevin" data-source="post: 9098290" data-attributes="member: 7024481"><a href="https://www.enworld.org/goto/post?id=9098085" target="_blank">DEFCON 1 said:</a>I'm of the opinion that pretty much most of these questions/concerns/wants/needs come down to players and DMs both wanting to play the game in a certain way... and just not trusting the other side to follow them or play that way too.Why do so many DMs get angry about so many species with Darkvision? Because they want to run their games in such a way that having monsters hiding out in the darkness and then being able to surprise and attack the players from the darkness without the players noticing them is a story they want to tell. But if all the players play species with Darkvision... that's them telling the DM &quot;We don't like that story, so we are deliberately choosing options that stop us from having to be handed that story.&quot;some truth to that,&nbsp; but a lot of that is because they don't take the time to understand the rules.&nbsp; Darkvision is a very very limited type of vision.&nbsp; In almost every game I've ever played in it was treated like the movie Riddick.&nbsp; You can just see&nbsp; in the dark.&nbsp; map out 30ft and then 60ft and imagine all the things you can't see around you.&nbsp; Dark vision is the most abused ability in all of DND and Pathfinder because it's a pain to keep track of who can see what and everyone just&nbsp; defaults to easy mode you can see in the dark.&nbsp; &nbsp; Just following the&nbsp; rules of darkvision as written in the book,&nbsp; I find makes most parties default to torches and light spells.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Even descriptions of Drow Cities usually start with glowing fungus and light sources as you get into civilized areas. Because you can't see far enough to avoid the monsters.Now</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nevin, post: 9098290, member: 7024481"] [URL='https://www.enworld.org/goto/post?id=9098085'][I]DEFCON 1 said:[/I][/URL] [I]I'm of the opinion that pretty much most of these questions/concerns/wants/needs come down to players and DMs both wanting to play the game in a certain way... and just not trusting the other side to follow them or play that way too. Why do so many DMs get angry about so many species with Darkvision? Because they want to run their games in such a way that having monsters hiding out in the darkness and then being able to surprise and attack the players from the darkness without the players noticing them is a story they want to tell. But if all the players play species with Darkvision... that's them telling the DM "We don't like that story, so we are deliberately choosing options that stop us from having to be handed that story."[/I] some truth to that, but a lot of that is because they don't take the time to understand the rules. Darkvision is a very very limited type of vision. In almost every game I've ever played in it was treated like the movie Riddick. You can just see in the dark. map out 30ft and then 60ft and imagine all the things you can't see around you. Dark vision is the most abused ability in all of DND and Pathfinder because it's a pain to keep track of who can see what and everyone just defaults to easy mode you can see in the dark. Just following the rules of darkvision as written in the book, I find makes most parties default to torches and light spells. Even descriptions of Drow Cities usually start with glowing fungus and light sources as you get into civilized areas. Because you can't see far enough to avoid the monsters. Now [/QUOTE]

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