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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9098395" data-attributes="member: 7006">I think it depends on how one is coming at the challenges.If you want to be a Hawkeye and spot details other miss so you go all-in on Perception... getting yourself like a +12 with always-on Advantage... that's fine in of itself.&nbsp; But what about now all of these checks the DM would have ordinarily been putting in front of you and the party that would have been DC 10?&nbsp; You are making this checks all the time.&nbsp; Every time.&nbsp; Is THAT supposed to be &quot;fun&quot;?&nbsp; Because at that point having a high Perception is essentially unnecessary because there's never a check that is in question.&nbsp; We have effectively removed all things that could be perceived under a certain level-- remove all manner of challenges under a certain level.If you do that... if you are stripping the game of all manner of challenges under a certain level... why else would one think you would do that other than you just don't want to be challenged by those anymore?&nbsp; You don't want to have &quot;easy things&quot; put in front of you, because you always will succeed.&nbsp; So why would the DM even mention these things if there was no chance of failure?&nbsp; Do DMs ever let the players know &quot;You were successful in putting on your armor this morning.&quot;&nbsp; No.&nbsp; Of course not.&nbsp; Because there was never any chance of NOT doing that, so there's no point in talking about it.&nbsp; If you always succeed on standard Perception stuff, then the DM will past that onto you through normal party information distribution and most likely never even bother telling you that it was because you had &quot;high Perception&quot;.&nbsp; &quot;High Perception&quot; becomes so rote that it ceases to be much of anything.The only time the DM will question you as the high-Perception PC about Perception things is when you still have a chance of failure even with the high-Perception stuff.&nbsp; Because that's the only time when something is in question.&nbsp; If nothing is in question, then it's not going to be talked about as a challenge.&nbsp; And if it's not a challenge, then it'll just be casual conversation information the DM will pass on to you.&nbsp; And speaking personally... non-challenges to me are not as much fun as challenges to play.&nbsp; And that's why having extremely high skill modifiers or &quot;always succeed&quot; levels is the removal of fun, rather than the gain of it.&nbsp; But you might feel differently, and that's cool.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 9098395, member: 7006"] I think it depends on how one is coming at the challenges. If you want to be a Hawkeye and spot details other miss so you go all-in on Perception... getting yourself like a +12 with always-on Advantage... that's fine in of itself. But what about now all of these checks the DM would have ordinarily been putting in front of you and the party that would have been DC 10? You are making this checks all the time. Every time. Is THAT supposed to be "fun"? Because at that point having a high Perception is essentially unnecessary because there's never a check that is in question. We have effectively removed all things that could be perceived under a certain level-- remove all manner of challenges under a certain level. If you do that... if you are stripping the game of all manner of challenges under a certain level... why else would one think you would do that other than you just don't want to be challenged by those anymore? You don't want to have "easy things" put in front of you, because you always will succeed. So why would the DM even mention these things if there was no chance of failure? Do DMs ever let the players know "You were successful in putting on your armor this morning." No. Of course not. Because there was never any chance of NOT doing that, so there's no point in talking about it. If you always succeed on standard Perception stuff, then the DM will past that onto you through normal party information distribution and most likely never even bother telling you that it was because you had "high Perception". "High Perception" becomes so rote that it ceases to be much of anything. The only time the DM will question you as the high-Perception PC about Perception things is when you still have a chance of failure even with the high-Perception stuff. Because that's the only time when something is in question. If nothing is in question, then it's not going to be talked about as a challenge. And if it's not a challenge, then it'll just be casual conversation information the DM will pass on to you. And speaking personally... non-challenges to me are not as much fun as challenges to play. And that's why having extremely high skill modifiers or "always succeed" levels is the removal of fun, rather than the gain of it. But you might feel differently, and that's cool. [/QUOTE]

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