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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 8903722" data-attributes="member: 7006">The Perception skill to me is really two different things-- it is the out-of-combat check to get a sense of what is going on around the person, looking for hints and clues of what might be out and about-- and the in-combat number mechanic opposing Stealth used to determine whether characters can attack with Advantage.The latter is I think mainly why Perception exists in the game as a skill.  During combat every roll tends to have an opposite number... whether than be Armor Class that opposes the Weapon Attack roll, the Saving Throw that opposes the Spell attack roll, the Athletics or Acrobatics check that opposes the Athletics check for a grapple etc.  For attacking someone while hidden in order to gain a benefit... you again need two opposing things-- in this case Stealth of the person hidden while attacking vs Perception of the person being attacked.  If the opposed check is successful for the attacker, then their attack roll gains Advantage.  So a Perception like number is necessary in some form or fashion if you want players to be able to attack while hidden in the middle of combat.As far as the former... this is the place where I think you don't need to use it necessarily.  Where the DM can just tell the players what they can see and hear and smell purely as part of the description and narrative.  There's no game mechanic to be gained by making a successful Perception check... it's purely information.  And the DM gets to decide how much information they give out to players.But I would suspect that most players (with good reason usually) suspect that there are things hidden out and about narratively too... and the call for the Perception check is their shortcut to discovery rather than the other method, which is to actually narrate your character going out and trying to "scout"-- narratively dictating the different places you are looking around, naming all the different animals and sounds you might hear that seem out of place, smelling any odd fragrances that don't belong.  All in an effort to discover that thing the DM has placed out there to surprise the group with later.Most players nowadays just skip all that narration and want to make a Perception check just to speed up the process-- the same way many players no longer wish to describe how they are disarming a trap the DM has put in front of them, they instead just want to roll a Thieves Tools check to get it taken care of.  It's faster, it's easier, and it doesn't require the player to have to get overly detailed on saying the bits the DM wants to hear to let them find the hidden thing or disarm the trap.Personally I don't care either way.  If a player wants to get a hint via asking to make a Perception check, or I just decide to give the players a hint by narrating the hint as part of the description... I'm fine either way.  After all... since more often than not the Perception check is merely a player's way to make sure the DM isn't going to surprise the group... the easiest way to cut down on those number of requested Perception checks is to just cut down on the number of times you as DM try and "surprise" the group.  Just remove that trick from your DM's bag and your players will no longer constantly believe they have to be on alert and requesting checks in order to outsmart and counteract you.</blockquote>

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