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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The sorcerer as a unique class (with bloodlines - see post #1)
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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 4092505" data-attributes="member: 29252"><p>At least you're recognizing that.</p><p></p><p>Fewer high level spells per day for more low-level spells per day... of which few Sorcerers ever use up anyway at that point - slight power decline.</p><p></p><p>More skill points, plus Use Magic Device - handy, but not where the majority of a spellcaster's power comes from. Most the time, the skillmonkey in the party will have all the useful stuff anyway. Mild boost.</p><p></p><p>d6 Hit die - mostly only matters at lower levels; at higher levels, if the caster is taking hits, he's pretty much already lost anyway. Besides - the difference between a d4 and a d6 averages 1 hp/level - +/- 2 points of Con will cover it without noticing the difference, really. Mild boost.</p><p></p><p>Slightly more spells known, but focused on the low-end, where they're less likely to matter. Mild boost.</p><p></p><p>Actual class features - handy, but for the most part, they don't particularly matter (Eschew Materials is covered by a 5 gp item). For most of them, they're not particularly strong. Only a mild boost there.</p><p></p><p>Stealth problems - there's no way to cast a spell while staying hidden without risking severe repercussions (skill check) unlike what you can currently do with simple Invisibility and Summoning spells (and which, unless you've done similar cutting to the Wizard, puts the Sorcerer at a rather painful disadvantage). Power drop, medium. </p><p></p><p>Obvious signs of class, that you can't do much about (arcane runes etched into flesh). Anyone sees you, they know you're a Sorcerer, straightaway. Illusion is on the list, so the Sorcerer might be able to throw up Disguise Self ... but a simple Detect Magic will spot that. This character cannot "hide" in a crowd effectively. Not normally something that comes up in game, so a minor power drop only.</p><p></p><p>Spell list says "Sorry, we don't have record of any such file sorcerer_spells.zip" or "I'm sorry, but we couldn't find what you were looking for." depending on which link I click, so I can't comment on it much... but I notice you don't list Transmutation (which includes the more common and more effective buffs), Conjuration (which includes most of the spells that ignore SR for things where it's a problem, and the spells that allow someone to escape tight spots), and there's no mention of basic utility spells at all (Fly, Knock, Unseen Servant, See Invisibility, Detect Secret Doors, Comprehend Languages, and so on come to mind). I can't check your spell list to be sure, but that's actually a pretty major drop in power, in and of itself. Plus, in making a custom spell list, you've got a much more subtle reduction in power that ends up being pretty major a few years into the edition, relative to other casters - new sources don't add anything (as it's not on the custom list). </p><p></p><p>A few mild boosts, two mild drops, one medium drop, and one very large drop. I'd need to check your spell list, but unless I want to play a less effective caster for RP reasons, I'd honestly prefer a stock PHB Sorcerer.</p><p></p><p></p><p>They've got a slower progression - yeah, they're exactly one class level behind on their spell access from the other Core casters. </p><p></p><p>They've got no class features - yes, it's annoying, but in the end, that backfired - it just encourages use of PrC's (which, when you find one with full spell progression, becomes strictly better than Sorcerer levels). </p><p></p><p>Also - a Sorcerer has an advantage that you haven't noticed - per-round options.</p><p>With a prepared caster, every spell cast is one less option. The Wizard-6 that prepared Fly, Haste, Web, Glitterdust, Scorching Ray, Shield *3 and Mage Armor*2 has, on the first round of his first encounter, seven spell options (he'll have already burned one Mage Armor, due to the duration). Once he uses an option, it's gone for the day (unless he's got more copies, but that's an illusory gain, as he dropped an option earlier in the day to have multiple copies). The Sorcerer, on the other hand, while he generally has fewer options to begin with, has exactly the same number of options until the Sorcerer is out of his top-tier of spell slots (and curiously, a Sorcerer can actually have more spell options at the start of the first encounter due to the ability to metamagic on the fly). The Wizard loses options linearly - the Sorcerer, only in tiers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack Simth, post: 4092505, member: 29252"] At least you're recognizing that. Fewer high level spells per day for more low-level spells per day... of which few Sorcerers ever use up anyway at that point - slight power decline. More skill points, plus Use Magic Device - handy, but not where the majority of a spellcaster's power comes from. Most the time, the skillmonkey in the party will have all the useful stuff anyway. Mild boost. d6 Hit die - mostly only matters at lower levels; at higher levels, if the caster is taking hits, he's pretty much already lost anyway. Besides - the difference between a d4 and a d6 averages 1 hp/level - +/- 2 points of Con will cover it without noticing the difference, really. Mild boost. Slightly more spells known, but focused on the low-end, where they're less likely to matter. Mild boost. Actual class features - handy, but for the most part, they don't particularly matter (Eschew Materials is covered by a 5 gp item). For most of them, they're not particularly strong. Only a mild boost there. Stealth problems - there's no way to cast a spell while staying hidden without risking severe repercussions (skill check) unlike what you can currently do with simple Invisibility and Summoning spells (and which, unless you've done similar cutting to the Wizard, puts the Sorcerer at a rather painful disadvantage). Power drop, medium. Obvious signs of class, that you can't do much about (arcane runes etched into flesh). Anyone sees you, they know you're a Sorcerer, straightaway. Illusion is on the list, so the Sorcerer might be able to throw up Disguise Self ... but a simple Detect Magic will spot that. This character cannot "hide" in a crowd effectively. Not normally something that comes up in game, so a minor power drop only. Spell list says "Sorry, we don't have record of any such file sorcerer_spells.zip" or "I'm sorry, but we couldn't find what you were looking for." depending on which link I click, so I can't comment on it much... but I notice you don't list Transmutation (which includes the more common and more effective buffs), Conjuration (which includes most of the spells that ignore SR for things where it's a problem, and the spells that allow someone to escape tight spots), and there's no mention of basic utility spells at all (Fly, Knock, Unseen Servant, See Invisibility, Detect Secret Doors, Comprehend Languages, and so on come to mind). I can't check your spell list to be sure, but that's actually a pretty major drop in power, in and of itself. Plus, in making a custom spell list, you've got a much more subtle reduction in power that ends up being pretty major a few years into the edition, relative to other casters - new sources don't add anything (as it's not on the custom list). A few mild boosts, two mild drops, one medium drop, and one very large drop. I'd need to check your spell list, but unless I want to play a less effective caster for RP reasons, I'd honestly prefer a stock PHB Sorcerer. They've got a slower progression - yeah, they're exactly one class level behind on their spell access from the other Core casters. They've got no class features - yes, it's annoying, but in the end, that backfired - it just encourages use of PrC's (which, when you find one with full spell progression, becomes strictly better than Sorcerer levels). Also - a Sorcerer has an advantage that you haven't noticed - per-round options. With a prepared caster, every spell cast is one less option. The Wizard-6 that prepared Fly, Haste, Web, Glitterdust, Scorching Ray, Shield *3 and Mage Armor*2 has, on the first round of his first encounter, seven spell options (he'll have already burned one Mage Armor, due to the duration). Once he uses an option, it's gone for the day (unless he's got more copies, but that's an illusory gain, as he dropped an option earlier in the day to have multiple copies). The Sorcerer, on the other hand, while he generally has fewer options to begin with, has exactly the same number of options until the Sorcerer is out of his top-tier of spell slots (and curiously, a Sorcerer can actually have more spell options at the start of the first encounter due to the ability to metamagic on the fly). The Wizard loses options linearly - the Sorcerer, only in tiers. [/QUOTE]
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The sorcerer as a unique class (with bloodlines - see post #1)
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