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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 3331949" data-attributes="member: 3051">The way we've always interpreted the "mithral items are also masterwork" line is that the ACP reduction for masterwork was already included in the -3 mithral gives.  But yes, I've played a Sorcerer who wore Celestial mail, although to be fair I DID have full armor proficiency (I had a level of Aristocrat.  Yes, the NPC class.)Well, mithral is ALSO just too strong; you don't run into this problem with other materials.  So, in our rules we went back to the AD&D style: there's Mithral, which is a bit weaker than the 3E version (+1 ACP, +1 MaxDEX, -5% SF, and mobility enhancements cost -1), and True Mithral, which is comparable to 3E (+1 AC, +2 ACP, +1 MaxDEX, -10% SF, and mobility enhancements cost -1); these stats assume you're using the material for the full suit of armor (half the bonuses go to Primary, and half to Secondary).  They both reduce the weight class of the armor, also (but no material lets you change Heavy to Light).The mobility thing is that we added two armor enchantments to our game:Lesser mobility costs +2 and increases MaxDEX by 2, ACP by 1, SF by 5%, and the item's weight drops 10%.  Requires haste or freedom of movement.Greater mobility costs +4 and increases MaxDEX by 5, ACP by 2, SF by 10%, and the item's weight drops 25%.  Requires mass haste or wind walk.These are normally +2 and +4, but for Mithral they're +1 and +3.  So, stacking Mithral with lesser mobility (at a cost of +1) gives you the same stat boosts as the old Mithral.Instead of a -4 nonproficiency penalty, I'd prefer something a bit more flexible.  Cut the AC bonus in half, add 5 to the ACP, add 25% to the spell failure, that sort of thing; penalize a little bit in each area.Up to a point.  If you make the discrepancies too large, even the "casual" players will take notice.  And if they don't notice until way down the road, it's just going to upset them when they find out they've been paying three times as much as the other guy for comparable effectiveness.  I'd prefer to avoid that from the start, even if it means using slightly more complicated math.As we've written it, no, you can't make an "improved" bloodsteel.  Since you'd already need to find a level ~20 craftsman to make the high-end items in the first place (to hit a Craft DC in the mid-30s), there just wouldn't be much room for going higher.  And with ~50 materials, we didn't really feel we needed more variation.Also, that just brings up the problem mentioned earlier; if you allow masterwork bonuses to stack with magic to stack with material bonuses, it's really easy to hit ACP=0 and SF=0%.  By removing the masterwork bonuses, it's not nearly as common, since only a couple materials have SF reductions of more than 5%, and they're all top-end (DC +19 or +20).</blockquote>

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