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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eldorian" data-source="post: 752260" data-attributes="member: 10504">Holy crap dude, calm down.  My post attacked the system, I don't care who posted it.  Since you took it personal... I will try to remain impartial to who's posting, and just defeat the system. I laugh at this.  You seriously believe that an 18th level sorcerer can get full use out of his daily spell allotment?  So, in a given day, you expect him to have use of 6 spells of each lower level?  First off, in order for the sorcerer to want to cast a spell of a given spell level, he has to have a useful spell at that level.  In a given day, the core sorcerer is supposed to encounter situations where he can use 6 spells of each spell level up to 6th?  That's simply unreasonable, unless you have a VERY good spell selection, or you simply make due with weaker spells, and occasionally use higher level slots for lower level spells (which would invalidate your spell point arguement)This is from your ealier post So, what this says is that the sorcerer can effectivly increase his caster level by 2 for the cost that would normally be a Fortified Power.  (which is a +25%, ie, half an empower).  Lets pick on Cone of Cold.  According to this system, cone of cold does 10d6, 35 average.  For 2 power points, he could up the damage to 12d6, 42 average.  with Fortify power, he could up the damage to 10d6 *1.25,  43.75 average.  Hmm. Well.  Poor psions, takes them a feat.   This doesn't really elicit a responce... I advocate removal of level based effects on spells. First off, thanks for correcting my math.  I aughtn't have said "almost" without knowing that they didn't get bonus points. I was off by a whole .2 of a spell. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> I can't believe you seriously think that 14 9th level spells, at level 18, is inferior to 3 9th, 5 8th, 6 7th....  Lets consider a day in which you engage in 3 battles.  Core sorcerer gets one 9th level spell off per battle.  SP can get 4, if pressed.  Even taking into account utility spells.. the MP guy could easily handle 2 9th level spells a fight.  2 ninth level spells can settle most fights.  As for your "lose 40 spells per day!" arguement, they're casting 9th level spells there.. wail of the banshee, wierd, meteor swarm.. these spells win fights.  They're basically cutting down the number of actions it takes to bring thier full power to bear. (you probably argue that haste makes you use up all your spells faster and that it is bad too...)As for 3/4 of the wail of the banshee's being overkill.. So?  The fact is that this sorcerer CAN OVERKILL.  My sorcerer, who was based around empowered fireballs as his 9th level spell killer of choice, as well as wierd, would be able to toss 18d8 *1/5, 121 average damage delayed blast fireballs 14 times per day!  He'd LOVE THAT =).  Even doing half damage (which i wouldn't count on, he had greater spell focus evocation)  I could, with my 4 spell per battle quota, do 240 damage to an area of effect each fight, all in 4 rounds.  SIGN ME UP!  That, or force people to save against 4 wierds.. not many oponents survive 4 death spells at 19+ cha+ spell foci.I said: You said First off, I don't love Psions.  Hardly ever play them.  Thier multiple ability dependance ruins the class.  As for the core sorcerer only getting 3 spells per day.  First off, they get a bonus from high ability scores (unless you're a crappy sorcerer), upping that to 4.  Each encounter should take up 1/4 of thier power, ie, one spell.  The SP sorcerer only gets 2 points?  so 1/4 of his power is what, a half a first level spell?  I feel sorry for them, as I said before. Funny, ya don't say?  Hmm.. looks like the design notes for the 3e psion to me, only the sorcerer ended up more powerful. Did you read this after you typed it?  14>10.  in fact, it's 40% better.  And the sorcerer casting more spells than psion.. well thats if he has his normal spell system.  If he gets the psion's system, which has superior flexiblity (the psion's supposed strong point), then OF COURSE 14 is MUCH better than 10. Are you smoking something?  You're counting the change left over from casting powerful spells as part of the characters power?  ooh.. 9 first level spells compared to 3 first level spells and 4 ninth level spells.  Yah.. i totally see your point. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> 9 is in fact greater than 7....Have you looked at the psion powerlist?  This "Full caster level" stuff is mostly nonsense.  Most psion powers don't scale with level, or if they do, it's only duration.  Also, for psion damage spells, the spells do the equivalent of sorcerer damaging spells -1 caster level -1 per caster level, since they all deal a die lower in damage (compare 5d4 to 6d6, for whitefire and fireball respectivly, both 3rd level). It can be summed up easily.  The SP Sorcerer has Psion flexability, but with more points per day, and better spells.I appologize if i got a little harsh at the end.. You did worse.Eldorian Antar</blockquote>

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