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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Spirit Bard, Shepherd Druid, and a full on Shaman class.
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<blockquote data-quote="Marandahir" data-source="post: 8059162" data-attributes="member: 6803643"><p>I don't think we need a full-on Shaman class.</p><p></p><p>Most versions of it I've seen are Wisdom-based or even Charisma-based primal warlocks, essentially.</p><p></p><p>What we need a a Primal Spirit Otherworldly Patron, and some invocations that speak to shamanic flavour. </p><p></p><p>The problem is that Shaman means different things to different people. </p><p></p><p>It can mean a Nature-deity priest. It can mean a spirit-channeller (medium). It can mean a nature spirit communer/evoker/summoner. It can mean a druid-type character but not from the Celtic world. It can mean a "tribal" or "noncivilised" (aka offensively stereotyped) spiritual leader.</p><p></p><p>Many of these concepts have shown up in different classes. Totem Warrior & Ancestral Guardian Barbarians, Bards (esp College of Spirits), Nature Domain Cleric, Trickery Domain Cleric, Arcana Domain Cleric, Tempest Domain Cleric, Druids, Monks, Rangers, even Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards can reflect Shamanic roles. </p><p></p><p>There is plenty of room for additional subclasses to reflect various iterations on the concept from different base-class angles. I could see a Medicine-Man/Wise Woman/White Witch type subclass for Artificers, for example. But a full on class called Shaman is about as culturally insensitive, pigeonholing, and limited as a full on "Warlord" class. There's a reason neither of these two classes returned for 5e (I'm somewhat convinced that Avenger didn't return in-name because 4e PH2 predated 2012's Avengers release, and Invoker didn't return because Warlocks got back their invocations from 3.5e. Meanwhile, all the missing 4e PH1/PH2/PH3 classes have been incorporated in some way as one or more subclasses in 5e (or are being explored as much via Unearthed Arcana). Wardens' main schtick is a 6th-level series of spells that Druids get, while their broad concept was split between Barbarians, Rangers, and the Oath of the Ancients Paladin. Invokers got reincorporated into Clerics, though there's room for a mystic theurge type subclass of Wizard that would feel very invoker-y. Avengers became the Oath of Vengeance Paladin, with some traits ending up with the Monk (Kensei and Sun Soul can both model Avengers brilliantly). Warlords are split between Battle Master & Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight Fighters, plus various approaches to the concept from related classes like Keith Baker's Dirge Singer Bards in Exploring Eberron and the War Domain Cleric. I also like <em>Morgrave Miscellany'</em>s Field Marshal Ranger, which takes the concept to the Ranger class, and the Oaths of the Crown, Conquest, and Glory Paladins feel a bit like the Warlord from the Paladin side of things. And the Mastermind Rogue takes a more LazyLord approach. Seeker from PH3 was split between Arcane Archer Fighters and the return to Primal magic Rangers. Runepriests have had a few different attempts at translation: you've got your UA Rune Scribe Prestige Class, you've got the UA Rune Knight Fighter, you've got the Forge Domain Cleric, you've got the Artificer in general (especially the UA Archivist and ExE Forge Adept), and now you've got the Order of Scribes Wizard, too. Ardent, Battlemind, and Psion all showed up as subclasses of UA Mystic; Battlemind was reworked into UA Psi Knight Fighter, while Ardent and Psion seem destined for takes on Psionics like the UA Psionic Soul Sorcerer or whatever replaces it if it was rejected.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marandahir, post: 8059162, member: 6803643"] I don't think we need a full-on Shaman class. Most versions of it I've seen are Wisdom-based or even Charisma-based primal warlocks, essentially. What we need a a Primal Spirit Otherworldly Patron, and some invocations that speak to shamanic flavour. The problem is that Shaman means different things to different people. It can mean a Nature-deity priest. It can mean a spirit-channeller (medium). It can mean a nature spirit communer/evoker/summoner. It can mean a druid-type character but not from the Celtic world. It can mean a "tribal" or "noncivilised" (aka offensively stereotyped) spiritual leader. Many of these concepts have shown up in different classes. Totem Warrior & Ancestral Guardian Barbarians, Bards (esp College of Spirits), Nature Domain Cleric, Trickery Domain Cleric, Arcana Domain Cleric, Tempest Domain Cleric, Druids, Monks, Rangers, even Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards can reflect Shamanic roles. There is plenty of room for additional subclasses to reflect various iterations on the concept from different base-class angles. I could see a Medicine-Man/Wise Woman/White Witch type subclass for Artificers, for example. But a full on class called Shaman is about as culturally insensitive, pigeonholing, and limited as a full on "Warlord" class. There's a reason neither of these two classes returned for 5e (I'm somewhat convinced that Avenger didn't return in-name because 4e PH2 predated 2012's Avengers release, and Invoker didn't return because Warlocks got back their invocations from 3.5e. Meanwhile, all the missing 4e PH1/PH2/PH3 classes have been incorporated in some way as one or more subclasses in 5e (or are being explored as much via Unearthed Arcana). Wardens' main schtick is a 6th-level series of spells that Druids get, while their broad concept was split between Barbarians, Rangers, and the Oath of the Ancients Paladin. Invokers got reincorporated into Clerics, though there's room for a mystic theurge type subclass of Wizard that would feel very invoker-y. Avengers became the Oath of Vengeance Paladin, with some traits ending up with the Monk (Kensei and Sun Soul can both model Avengers brilliantly). Warlords are split between Battle Master & Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight Fighters, plus various approaches to the concept from related classes like Keith Baker's Dirge Singer Bards in Exploring Eberron and the War Domain Cleric. I also like [I]Morgrave Miscellany'[/I]s Field Marshal Ranger, which takes the concept to the Ranger class, and the Oaths of the Crown, Conquest, and Glory Paladins feel a bit like the Warlord from the Paladin side of things. And the Mastermind Rogue takes a more LazyLord approach. Seeker from PH3 was split between Arcane Archer Fighters and the return to Primal magic Rangers. Runepriests have had a few different attempts at translation: you've got your UA Rune Scribe Prestige Class, you've got the UA Rune Knight Fighter, you've got the Forge Domain Cleric, you've got the Artificer in general (especially the UA Archivist and ExE Forge Adept), and now you've got the Order of Scribes Wizard, too. Ardent, Battlemind, and Psion all showed up as subclasses of UA Mystic; Battlemind was reworked into UA Psi Knight Fighter, while Ardent and Psion seem destined for takes on Psionics like the UA Psionic Soul Sorcerer or whatever replaces it if it was rejected. [/QUOTE]
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