Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8854918" data-attributes="member: 93670">"it"?Stop thinking of this as an early game problem.  The classes are front loaded by design.  Any straight class is going to get smaller & smaller gains by comparison as the game progresses.  When a dip gives an ability that scales by character rather than class level that dip is going to provide greater & greater benefits to a PC the longer the game goes on. The easiest & most obvious example is a tier3 sorcerer & a 1-2 level warlock dip to gain more benefit than almost any 1-2 tier3 sorcerer levels would give because it does not require any preplanning to make maximum use of like hexadin.  That is the case because it involves an ability that scales by character level like the new channel divinity rather than class level and because there are no penalties beyond the eventually minimal opportunity cost.As to the example dual class rules I linked... it works like [spoiler="this"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can dual class at any time & that gives you two parallel exp tracks along with two classes side by side.  Lets say classA is level 9 & classB is level5  for simplicity.   There are some further limitations that determine how the classes combine & the additional costs you will have for the rest of the game.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">take the hit points from each class given your con score & divide them by two then add the results together.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This one should be easy... If a level 5 ClassA would have 35hp & a level 9 classB would have 22hp you would have 28.5 rounded down to 28hp.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Take the delta between classA's proficiency bonus & classB's proficiency bonus (4-3=1) & subtract it from the higher of the two (4-1=3)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This encourages the dual classed player to go whole hog rather than just dip the juicy levels & focus on the primary class or it creates a cost as the spread grows.  It also means that someone who doesn't  do this can be happy about not having to take that hit.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Experience needed for each side is multiplied by 2.5 (or 3) depending on what feel the gm is going for.  This could be any number but those ones work well.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">SYSTEM MATH HIGHLIGHTING:[ispoiler]By default the exp table roughly doubles each level.  In order to get from level N to level N+1 a PC needs roughly the same amount of experience it took them to go from level 1 to level N before they will have enough to progress from level N to N+1[/ispoiler]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">That interacts with the 2.5x or 3x multiplier by making it harder & harder to stay even with a single classed PC at the benefit of having lots of low  & maybe even mid level stuff  from the classA in addition  to the ones they have from classB.  Because of how the exp chat roughly doubles each level this works out to a few levels that are going to vary depending on the split & seeing that is why the spreadsheet exists</li> </ul></li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spell slots & spell prep are tracked separate in 3.5 style.  They don't stack 5e style<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Given the prior steps the multiclassed character is probably going to be a few levels levels behind on the high side and  almost certainly have reduced proficiency bonus for whatever level their high class is unless they are keeping  both at the same level or very close.  Keeping both at the same level is difficult in ways that will cause both to fall behind due to the 2.5-3x multiplier applied to the exp needs when the base need already roughly doubles every level before that multiplier</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">That classA9/classB5 with a +3 proficiency bonus would have sunk 136,250 experience which is almost enough to be level 14 but the hit points from all levels of both classA & classB are halved so those are probably going to be behind a bit<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I pulled the earlier hp numbers from thin air but you can see how that works with Alice's hypothetical 12con barbarian9(77/2)/fighter5(35/2) (Alice has 65hp) & Bob's hypothetical 12 con sorcerer 9(47/2)/warlock 5(33/2)(Bob has 40hp).<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A single classed barbarian/fighter/sorcerer/warlock with 12 con & 136,250 experience would have the following HP values respectively  barb 101hp/fighter 88hp/sorcerer 62hp/75hp assuming I didn't math something wrong with the hit dice.  If Alice & bob are concerned about their low HP bumping classB for a bit is by far their best choice because 9/7 & 9/8 are 177,500 & 205,000xp but 10/5 is 176,250 & 11/5 is 228,750.  For comparison a straight single class pc with 136,250 exp is level 12 while 177,500 & 205,000 are 15 & 16.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">That works out to results that both choices are viscerally different with a clear niche each way with neither feeling like the other occupies the entire venn diagram of their niche.</li> </ul></li> </ul></li> </ul></li> </ul>[/spoiler]The math is simple but comparing different hypothetical builds crosses far enough beyond <a href="https://www.twohourssleep.com/what-is-millers-law-the-psychology-of-design-3-7/" target="_blank">7+/-2 </a>that the <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_gDYbw6DqunJBNsQLCeagpvltvhedw_NwuOBJOzwRcc/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">spreadsheet</a> keeps visualization easy if you aren't trying to use it on a phone <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

Verification