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Message: <blockquote data-quote="John Morrow" data-source="post: 2180341" data-attributes="member: 27012">Most of my players are also GMs and all are long-term role-players, so I know what you are talking about.  The sort of improv games that you describe can be wonderful but they aren't something you can package.  Either the GM and players can figure out how to do it or they can't.Well, it's not just that.  We run into problems related to characterization.  If it makes the most sense for a character to do something that will derail the whole game, it can be a struggle to prevent that from happening because just forcing the character to do something out of character can wreck a character for certain types of players.GMs simply need to realize that they aren't always as subtle as they think they are.  Of course my current problem (I'm GMing the longest-running game that I've GMed in years) is that I think some of the players who are also GMs suspect that I'm fudging a lot more than I really am.In some cases, I personally like to have the BBEG defeated anti-climactically and, well, that's it.  We sometimes take a series of Fridays off in the summer to run a 4-session min-campaign so a a friend from college who can't play on weekends can play.  He ran the last one and there was a point where we simply planned well and just stomped all over his bad guys.  Was it a good story?  No.  Was it a satisfying experience in character?  Yes.  And I'm glad the GM didn't add twists simply to make the game meet some sort of artificial "climax complexity quotient".  In the game I'm running, the PCs took out a more powerful enemy with a well-planned ambush in two rounds.  Anti-climactic?  Sure.  Fun?  Yes.  And that's what concerns me about fudging for story.  You'll never have a quick defeat that's satisfying in character (that "I love it when a plan comes together" feeling) if the GM feels that nothing should ever be easy for story-logic reasons.  Heck, I roll for a whole lot of things and even allow convenient coincidences, something thats a big no-no from a story perspective.Even if they do bite, they don't necessarily have to go in the direction that produces a satisfying story.  I've run a PC, for example, that let an addiction kill him early in a campaign.  Probably not the best thing for the story but I preferred that to fudging to keep him going.  It was the direction the game and the character took and I was happy the GM didn't fight it.</blockquote>

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