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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8250440" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Here is the thing on this, it comes down to game engine, procedures, and principles.</p><p></p><p>For instance:</p><p></p><p>* Player wants thing x to be true. Thing x being true doesn't overwrite already established fiction. Player x makes a move where the stakes are "is thing x true?"</p><p></p><p>Player gets a success.</p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Thing x is true</em>.</p><p></p><p>GMing a red herring either now or introducing the red herring later in such a way that would render the player's won <em>thing x is true</em> is against the rules and against their GMing principles (say what honesty demands...play with integrity and a table-facing hand). The GM is constrained by these things and subsequent fiction is bound by this.</p><p></p><p>What if the player gets a success with complication?</p><p></p><p><em>Thing x is true but this other thing you don't want to be true (that doesn't undermine thing x being true) is also true...deal with it.</em></p><p></p><p>You can't make a red herring about thing x, but you can do some shenanigans with stuff that isn't thing x that doesn't violate prior fiction, rules, or principles.</p><p></p><p>What if the player gets a failure?</p><p></p><p><em>Thing x is not true. Deal with it.</em></p><p></p><p>Here is your "red herrings are game" move. And this can snowball into other things being not true that you (the player) want to be true. Or things can stabilize and the picture will suddenly flesh out, constraining the imagined space such that <em>a, b, c, d, e, f, g, l, m, n, o, p</em> are all locked in...the only bit of murk left is around <em>h, i</em>, and <em>j</em>. Subsequent play and the prior, binding fiction (and, of course, the rules and principles) will determine the nature of things.</p><p></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p></p><p>Now if the question is "can you create a Story Now whodunnit where the GM is not constrained in the ways I've stated above?" The answer is "no, you cannot." But that doesn't mean that a whodunnit where curiosity is sated and the table participants are all both following and leading cannot emerge to create a skillfully played, satisfying mystery. It just means that <strong>the reveal of the whodunnit is operationalized in a particular way that precludes absolute GM authority in their preconceptions and extrapolations.</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8250440, member: 6696971"] Here is the thing on this, it comes down to game engine, procedures, and principles. For instance: * Player wants thing x to be true. Thing x being true doesn't overwrite already established fiction. Player x makes a move where the stakes are "is thing x true?" Player gets a success. [I] Thing x is true[/I]. GMing a red herring either now or introducing the red herring later in such a way that would render the player's won [I]thing x is true[/I] is against the rules and against their GMing principles (say what honesty demands...play with integrity and a table-facing hand). The GM is constrained by these things and subsequent fiction is bound by this. What if the player gets a success with complication? [I]Thing x is true but this other thing you don't want to be true (that doesn't undermine thing x being true) is also true...deal with it.[/I] You can't make a red herring about thing x, but you can do some shenanigans with stuff that isn't thing x that doesn't violate prior fiction, rules, or principles. What if the player gets a failure? [I]Thing x is not true. Deal with it.[/I] Here is your "red herrings are game" move. And this can snowball into other things being not true that you (the player) want to be true. Or things can stabilize and the picture will suddenly flesh out, constraining the imagined space such that [I]a, b, c, d, e, f, g, l, m, n, o, p[/I] are all locked in...the only bit of murk left is around [I]h, i[/I], and [I]j[/I]. Subsequent play and the prior, binding fiction (and, of course, the rules and principles) will determine the nature of things. [HR][/HR] Now if the question is "can you create a Story Now whodunnit where the GM is not constrained in the ways I've stated above?" The answer is "no, you cannot." But that doesn't mean that a whodunnit where curiosity is sated and the table participants are all both following and leading cannot emerge to create a skillfully played, satisfying mystery. It just means that [B]the reveal of the whodunnit is operationalized in a particular way that precludes absolute GM authority in their preconceptions and extrapolations.[/B] [/QUOTE]
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