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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 5539556" data-attributes="member: 326">I appreciate the kind words and thanks for taking the time out to pen such a lengthy reply.I grew up on epic and it just seems weird that 4E isn't getting it right...even though the system is (potentially) near perfect for it. Hopefully all it takes is a bit of nudging in the right direction.Noted.Sounds interesting, I'll keep my eye out for it. Best of luck with the module.Theres nothing that says it has to be that way, but as you note (and I agree) some people are just going to get a big kick out of that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />Agreed. When I first saw the 4E rules I was all for Gargantuan minions at epic (and so forth) simply through rank scaling, but the game itself blatantly shies away from that approach to the extent where I started questioning whether it was the best way forward. Glad I came to my senses though.It does look a bit slanted when representing 9999 orcs or whatever, when really you can always just lower the level by 1 and treat it as a 10,000 strong mob. Mike Shea's document on Running Epic Tier Games really should be the wake up call for not only those running Epic tier campaigns but also Epic tier game designers.Well exactly, closer to home something is, the more we care about.  Harmful? I still think it sneaks into the top ten simply by way of introducing contrast.There are a good number of possible derivations on this theme.Might be tricky to pull off but I'd love to set it up whereby the two groups thought they were acting in concert but were unwittingly working against each other (maybe an illusion clouding the mind of one group).  Well I was thinking that in the Paragon tier, rather than go to the planes you could have them come to you. That way you sow the seeds for later trips out there.Who says they never return? Having something new does not mean you automatically disregard something old, far from it. I just wrote a page yesterday on this (much better than the throwaway comments made in the article)...but no point advertising that till its out I guess. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />True, but as you noted previously, at epic you have to almost cheat to challenge the PCs, meaning such tricks are much more important for a DM to have up its proverbial sleeves.Theres so little of that required from Epic PC parties that you wonder if DMs will have to signpost it a few times before the players get the hang of it.DM: "It was Orcus riding a Tarrasque against the PCs who were stripped naked and left with no equipment...why didn't you run"Player: "Hey...were Epic Level...I still thought we could've taken 'em."I know, the planet in MM3 is Gargantuan...with a reach 4. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" />There are no rules for really big monsters and I will refrain from further speculation about any for 4-5 weeks. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I'm guesstimating you might get away with it once every 3 levels or so, maybe dropping to once every other level at the Immortal Tier.I don't judge Yoda by his size either.I agree on the Ritual side of things. Statistically you don't need to individually be able to blow up a city when you can do it with a ritual.I remember that in our campaign Graz'zt was able to Temporally Stasise a continent.Yes, start introducing politics at Paragon tier. Epic politicking often has a religious element. Especially if the PCs are gods or god-wannabe's.I know, but I can only go on my own experiences here. The worship 'angle' was probably the single greatest facet of the epic experience - it really does tie the players emotions to the events which impact the little people. I can't wax lyrical about this enough, but I know its a hard sell. The 4E artifact system is great. I am debating (with myself) the idea of whether non-artifact items should scale beyond level 30 for a hypothetical Immortal Tier.I saw the Glaive as more of a +6 dancing vorpal super-shuriken. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Anywhere we can get more info on this...google wasn't a great help.Some things, like #9, need built into the campaign rather than a single adventure.Coincidently enough I was just working tonight on a review of E2: Kingdom of the Ghouls for the website. Nightbringer is pretty cool (they should have made a bigger fuss about it in the module).Maybe I was too harsh saying the E series rates a 0 out of 10 on the epic checklist. But in all honesty I think WotC need a kick up the pants as regards the Epic Tier (though the Shademaw article is certainly a step in the right direction).</blockquote>

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