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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9343430" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Well, you know my position is that "the idea of writers' room" in Blades in the Dark isn't remotely legitimate.  Its about as illegitimate a position as one I've seen because the key feature that makes up the formulation just isn't there (its entirely the opposite).  And this gets to why I end up writing such long posts that are always overburdened with parentheticals for elaboration and context.  Because I don't want these kinds of takeaways to happen.You've read what I've written on this subject so many times.  I don't know how your takeaway is that I'm drawing a distinction that supports the position that writers' room is a dynamic that exists in a game like Blades in the Dark.Let me do that elaborating that I didn't do in the above post.Obliging means both (a) frequency of obliging, (b) magnitude of obliging, and, (c) most essentially, the type of obliging is around ensuring exactly the sort of unwanted and unwelcome outcomes (that Baker speaks about at the bottom) don't materialize in play.This is not the sort of obliging that Devil's Bargains do.This is not the sort of obliging that "ask questions and use the answers" does.This is not the sort of obliging that "follow the players' lead" does.This is not the sort of obliging that "keep the metachannel open" does.This is not the sort of obliging that "don't block" does.This is not the sort of obliging that "play goal-forward" does.This is not the sort of obliging that "put it on a card (eg make everything transparent and table-facing)" does.[HR][/HR]I get it that long-tenured, Traditional TTRPG players who have a certain sort of immersionist priorities are uncomfortable with (a) this sort of game engine transparency, (b) this sort of metachannel employment, and (c) the kind of systemitized player authority that allows them to generate seminal content which play centers around/pivots on.  But all of these things grant zero immunity to unwanted and unwelcome outcomes persistently haunting PCs/Crew and consistently cascading to new situation/game-states (I mean, the term "a game of spinning plates" and many players' laments that the game just overwhelms them with duress is frequent precisely because of this).  That is the kill-shot for writers' room dynamics.  Frequency and magnitude of player input (and the medium by which it happens - via open metachannel) are irrelevant to a formulation of writers' room when the type of obliging of immunity to unwanted and unwelcome outcomes is absolutely vetoed (and again, in fact, its routinely complained about how overwhelming the frequency and magnitude of unwanted and unwelcome materializes in the course of Blades in the Dark play).So all we're left with is long-tenured, Traditional TTRPGers with a certain sort of immersionist priorities are uncomfortable with a certain frequency (quite often) and magnitude (play-centering) of player input and a particular medium (meta-channel) by which that player input is offered.  These things are all necessary for writer's room, but not remotely sufficient (because exempt from it is the type of outcome immunity above).  Writers' rooms shepherd their stories through to conclusions, beholden to no extra-social duress upon or foiling of their designs (such as the kind of "system's say" that Blades in the Dark possessess which constantly generates the unwanted and unwelcome).  That feature is absolutely paramount for the dynamic of writers' rooms.</blockquote>

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