Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Terminator Paradox
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3774320" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>The Terminator Paradox, as you name it is a common problem with the assumption of time travel into the past.</p><p></p><p>For example, suppose you travel into the past and kill your father (or other wise disrupt your birth). Well, then you will never be born, so you will cease to exist. But, if you never existed, no one travelled back into the past and killed your father, which means you should exist, right?</p><p></p><p>Let's take another example. Suppose you know how to build a computer, so you travel back into the past to invent the computer. You then discover upon examination that you invented the computer so then ultimately the person who taught you how to build a computer has been yourself all along. But this presents a problem, how did you first learn how to build a computer? The information has appeared essentially from no where. It has no genesis. </p><p></p><p>IMO, this thought experiment actually shows that its impossible to go back into your own past. If you attempt to go back into the past, what actually ends up happening is that you end up in some other person's past. You then alter that person's past so that he doesn't exist. When you go forward, you don't return to your own present. You return to the present of some other person, who - because you've prevented him from existing - is no longer there.</p><p></p><p>So old Krouto is actually wrong. The memories he has are the memories of travelling with some other parallel group of extremely similar adventurers in an extremely similar universe. Millions of Krouto's have travelled back in the past, but each was actually in a slightly different universe. In one or more universes Warforged were evented and the first warforged was not Krouto (perhaps one of these was even the universe that the PC's left initially), and in all the rest they've learned how to make Warforged from the copy that was from the future of a different universe. In all those universes, the Psychosis has won, and there is no non-Psychosis future. </p><p></p><p>DON'T TELL YOUR PLAYERS THIS. Let them think about time travel in the 'normal' paradoxical fashion that stories typically have. Only you know that it really isn't working that way. The PC's have full choice. They aren't in the universe that 'Old Krouto' comes from, and 'New Krouto', if he ever goes back into the past at all, will become stranded in some other parallel adventuring groups world thinking that those adventurers are the ones he's familiar with.</p><p></p><p>In this way, you can use the story device while limiting the amount of railroading that you are doing. The future isn't fixed. The story is driving the plot, but the PC's will create thier own story.</p><p></p><p>Now, the twist: </p><p></p><p>[spoiler]Krouto is actually responcible for the destruction of innumerable universes. Every time he returns to the past of a different universe, he has been unknowingly taking the Psychosis with him and spreading the Psychosis to different universe were it has inevitably taken over and then ultimately (perhaps sometime after Krouto leaves the universe) eaten that whole universe. Thousands of futures have been destroyed, and the weave of the multiverse is starting to get really thin in spots. If Krouto is allowed to keep this process up, sooner or later the whole multiverse is going to be destroyed. Each time the Pyschosis spreads, it's actually getting stronger, because even if you hurt it, it can bring resources from other universes to fully regenerate. To really stop the thing at this point, it will be necessary to leave existance entirely so that the whole multi-headed hydra of the Psychosis can be fought at once. This will require the assistance of the legendary Tome of Infinite Planes. Only from this perspective can the Psychosis be truly defeated, and Krouto doesn't know any of this.</p><p></p><p>If this sounds a little too Epic for you (what's the CR of a multiuniverse planar eating monstrousity, anyway?), there is an easy out. Whenever the PC's use to book to leave the infinite universes, millions of other similar but perhaps slightly different PC's from other universes will do the same thing. Most will shout in unison that which they've discovered, "We all have to win at the same time. If any of us loses or retreats, we will all lose." and then each will have to face its own CR 28 (or whatever suits you) portion of the vast Psychosis.[/spoiler]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3774320, member: 4937"] The Terminator Paradox, as you name it is a common problem with the assumption of time travel into the past. For example, suppose you travel into the past and kill your father (or other wise disrupt your birth). Well, then you will never be born, so you will cease to exist. But, if you never existed, no one travelled back into the past and killed your father, which means you should exist, right? Let's take another example. Suppose you know how to build a computer, so you travel back into the past to invent the computer. You then discover upon examination that you invented the computer so then ultimately the person who taught you how to build a computer has been yourself all along. But this presents a problem, how did you first learn how to build a computer? The information has appeared essentially from no where. It has no genesis. IMO, this thought experiment actually shows that its impossible to go back into your own past. If you attempt to go back into the past, what actually ends up happening is that you end up in some other person's past. You then alter that person's past so that he doesn't exist. When you go forward, you don't return to your own present. You return to the present of some other person, who - because you've prevented him from existing - is no longer there. So old Krouto is actually wrong. The memories he has are the memories of travelling with some other parallel group of extremely similar adventurers in an extremely similar universe. Millions of Krouto's have travelled back in the past, but each was actually in a slightly different universe. In one or more universes Warforged were evented and the first warforged was not Krouto (perhaps one of these was even the universe that the PC's left initially), and in all the rest they've learned how to make Warforged from the copy that was from the future of a different universe. In all those universes, the Psychosis has won, and there is no non-Psychosis future. DON'T TELL YOUR PLAYERS THIS. Let them think about time travel in the 'normal' paradoxical fashion that stories typically have. Only you know that it really isn't working that way. The PC's have full choice. They aren't in the universe that 'Old Krouto' comes from, and 'New Krouto', if he ever goes back into the past at all, will become stranded in some other parallel adventuring groups world thinking that those adventurers are the ones he's familiar with. In this way, you can use the story device while limiting the amount of railroading that you are doing. The future isn't fixed. The story is driving the plot, but the PC's will create thier own story. Now, the twist: [spoiler]Krouto is actually responcible for the destruction of innumerable universes. Every time he returns to the past of a different universe, he has been unknowingly taking the Psychosis with him and spreading the Psychosis to different universe were it has inevitably taken over and then ultimately (perhaps sometime after Krouto leaves the universe) eaten that whole universe. Thousands of futures have been destroyed, and the weave of the multiverse is starting to get really thin in spots. If Krouto is allowed to keep this process up, sooner or later the whole multiverse is going to be destroyed. Each time the Pyschosis spreads, it's actually getting stronger, because even if you hurt it, it can bring resources from other universes to fully regenerate. To really stop the thing at this point, it will be necessary to leave existance entirely so that the whole multi-headed hydra of the Psychosis can be fought at once. This will require the assistance of the legendary Tome of Infinite Planes. Only from this perspective can the Psychosis be truly defeated, and Krouto doesn't know any of this. If this sounds a little too Epic for you (what's the CR of a multiuniverse planar eating monstrousity, anyway?), there is an easy out. Whenever the PC's use to book to leave the infinite universes, millions of other similar but perhaps slightly different PC's from other universes will do the same thing. Most will shout in unison that which they've discovered, "We all have to win at the same time. If any of us loses or retreats, we will all lose." and then each will have to face its own CR 28 (or whatever suits you) portion of the vast Psychosis.[/spoiler] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Terminator Paradox
Top