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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 5359896" data-attributes="member: 19675">There is no logical fallacy within my position that requires I &quot;make up my mind.&quot;The ritual that creates a golem requires as one of its components a physical body constructed of a physical substance (which substance in particular depends upon the particular ritual in question).A Clay golem is constructed either of hollow clay or solid clay, which is probably hardened.&nbsp; The Stone is carved from a single block of stone.&nbsp; An Iron or Bronze golem is cast.&nbsp; They are not robots or puppets, so have no joints, they have no internal structure, no pulleys, no gears.&nbsp; FWIW, this idea that golems have no internal structure dates back before D&amp;D to the first legends of golems in ancient Judaic texts: in the Talmud (Tractate Sanhedrin 38b), Adam was initially created as a golem when his dust was &quot;kneaded into a shapeless husk&quot;. Like Adam, all golems are created from mud.&nbsp; (Greek legends of Talos had him 1) originally as a giant, later either transformed into metal (made of bronze) or 2) as the last of a race of bronze men- not a construct, or 3) created by Hephastus as a construct, but with phenomenal speed and burning hot skin, he bears little resemblance to what shows up in D&amp;D.)The resultant golem is 100% animated by magic.&nbsp; However, since the physical form is the anchor for the magic, enough damage to the physical form will disrupt the magic...just like erasing part of the magic circle that holds an extraplanar being in place or at bay means the barrier falls.The only difference is that a golem is far more durable than a magic circle.&nbsp;What does a spine do?&nbsp; It supports the rib cage; it is an anchor point for things like hips or shoulders; it protects the spinal chord....none of which a golem has, because there is nothing inside a golem except solid matter or trapped air (depending on its construction method).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 5359896, member: 19675"] There is no logical fallacy within my position that requires I "make up my mind." The ritual that creates a golem requires as one of its components a physical body constructed of a physical substance (which substance in particular depends upon the particular ritual in question). A Clay golem is constructed either of hollow clay or solid clay, which is probably hardened. The Stone is carved from a single block of stone. An Iron or Bronze golem is cast. They are not robots or puppets, so have no joints, they have no internal structure, no pulleys, no gears. FWIW, this idea that golems have no internal structure dates back before D&D to the first legends of golems in ancient Judaic texts: in the Talmud (Tractate Sanhedrin 38b), Adam was initially created as a golem when his dust was "kneaded into a shapeless husk". Like Adam, all golems are created from mud. (Greek legends of Talos had him 1) originally as a giant, later either transformed into metal (made of [I]bronze[/I]) or 2) as the last of a race of bronze men- not a construct, or 3) created by Hephastus as a construct, but with phenomenal speed and burning hot skin, he bears little resemblance to what shows up in D&D.) The resultant golem is 100% animated by magic. However, since the physical form is the anchor for the magic, enough damage to the physical form will disrupt the magic...just like erasing part of the magic circle that holds an extraplanar being in place or at bay means the barrier falls. The only difference is that a golem is far more durable than a magic circle. What does a spine do? It supports the rib cage; it is an anchor point for things like hips or shoulders; it protects the spinal chord. ...none of which a golem has, because there is nothing inside a golem except solid matter or trapped air (depending on its construction method). [/QUOTE]

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