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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shayuri" data-source="post: 3666664" data-attributes="member: 4936">Hee heeOkay okay...Warlock said he didn't expect this and I believe him. It tickles me a bit, but I believe him. Maybe it's the psych degree talking, but I'm thinking it may be powwow time. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Liches, by definition, have to  have at least 12 HD, likely caster levels, to be liches. And it's a +4 template. This means the -minimum- ECL of the critter is 16, CR 14 or so. I might even say to bump it up one because of the apparently random and completely unexpected nature of its appearance. Liches, like dragons, are usually end bosses...telegraphed ahead of time because they require some special preparations to brace for.We're level 10. A +4 CR battle (and again, +4 is conservative given the circumstances) is just about always a potential TPK. They tend to be either spectacular blowout fights, with all stops pulled (if all goes well) or disspiriting crushings of the PC's bodies and souls (if it doesn't).If I were a hair more cynical, my reaction to this would be that it's punitive somehow. The GM is trying to punish us for screwing around and stirring up trouble. In fact, before I read his post...that's kind of what I thought. The implication being that every random storefront, barracks, dark alley, and so on is filled with beholders and dragons and liches...all just waiting to pounce on us should we leave the comforting environs of the annointed path.Having read the post, I'm willing to concede Warlock may simply have either overestimated our power and resources...or underestimated the power of a lich (armed with one of the more broken feats from Complete Divine, natch <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />). Either way, I think my complaint is not that we're too weak, nor that the lich is too strong. It's that nagging sensation of...wtf? This is random! If you can bump noses with liches when doing the equivalent of just horsing around to pass game time, then what are the -dangerous- missions going to be like?! I think it would help me at least...and possibly the rest of us...if we could understand the thinking that led up to this encounter. Then we could be sure that, if it is a mistake, that it won't happen again...and if not, then at least we'd know the how and why it's not, and could adjust OUR behavior so as to avoid such surprises in the future.</blockquote>

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