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Message: <blockquote data-quote="loseth" data-source="post: 4286629" data-attributes="member: 54535">[multi-forum post: RPG.net and ENworld]So, in the MM you get the monstrous humanoids presented as monsters. Orcs, Bugbears, Goblins, Drow—the usual suspects. And then in the back of the MM, you get the stats for using the monstrous races as PC races. Now, the monstrous PC races are not built in the same way as the monstrous monsters and I’m OK with that. But what really bugged me (I’m a monster-race fetishist, in case you haven’t guessed) is that the PC race versions of the monstrous races seemed at times to be describing totally different creatures from the monster versions of the monstrous races. Let’s take hobgoblins as an example. If you average the ability scores of all hobgoblin monster entries, you find that monster-hobgoblins are a lot stronger than average, significantly more agile than average, more healthy/tough/fit than average, and plain-old average in terms of mental and social abilities (Int, Wis, Cha). PC-race-hobgoblins, on the other hand, are healthier/tougher/fitter than average and more charismatic than average (+2 CON, +2 CHA), but average in terms of strength, agility and mental abilities. It just doesn’t match. For most people, I imagine this will be a rather insignificant thing, but as I said, I’m a monstrous race fanboi, so I need something better. Of course, I could just come up with tortured justifications for the discrepancies (‘Hobgoblin PCs are leaders, so they need higher CHA, but…erm…they don’t train as hard, so lower STR and DEX!’), but that just doesn’t do it for me. I need something more solid. More mechanical. The obvious solution, and the one I’ll pursue, is to simply set racial ability bonuses that are more in line with the monster entries of the race in question. For hobgoblins, I think I’ll go with +2 STR, +2 DEX & +2 CON. Of course, that leaves us with a problem: hobgoblins get three +2 racial ability score adjustments, while other races get two (or even one in the case of humans). So, I want to balance the monstrous races by giving them nasty disadvantages as well. I like that solution because it gives monstrous PC races a different feel, gamewise, than normal PC races. I’ll show you the kind of disadvantage I’m thinking about:BLOODIED RAGE (Orc) Whenever you are bloodied, roll a die. If the result is odd, then you go into a bloodied rage. When you are in a bloodied rage, you get a +1 bonus to damage rolls, but a -2 penalty to AC. Furthermore, you must always engage the nearest enemy in melee if possible and, once you attack an enemy, must continue attacking him or her until he or she is dead (this latter directive supercedes the necessity to attack the nearest enemy). If the nearest enemy is too far away to engage in melee, then you must use a double run action to get as close as possible to the that enemy. The bloodied rage ends when the encounter ends.So, basically, if you want to play a PC orc, your ability bonuses will allow you to make an awesome fighter, but you’re also going to have to deal with a serious handicap that other players don’t have.So, I want to ask posters for ideas they might have for disadvantages for other races, but with a couple of ground rules:i) The disadvantage should have real bite—it should affect PCs mechanically, particularly in battle.ii) The disadvantage should apply to the classes that are most likely to be played with the given race. So, giving an orc -2 to CHA and -5 to diplomacy checks wouldn’t be appropriate, because generally players will use orcs to play classes that don’t need CHA or diplomacy.So, my friends: any ideas?</blockquote>

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