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*Dungeons & Dragons
The three 5th editions - D&D Core, D&D Legends, D&D Tactics
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<blockquote data-quote="mkill" data-source="post: 5781796" data-attributes="member: 55985"><p>(Note: My arguments are based on the <a href="http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/theory/threefold/faq_v1.html" target="_blank">Threefold Model</a>. It represents a better split of player tastes than 3E/4E).</p><p></p><p>The thing is, if you look closer, both D&D Legends and D&D Tactics are an evolution of 3E. The reason is that 3E is not really traditional/low fantasy, and it's not that simulationist either, but it does nod in both directions.</p><p></p><p>To play "low fantasy" with 3E (and AD&D for that matter), you have to end the campaign at a fairly low level, maybe 5 or 6. After that, PC power level and everything else is at least "heroic fantasy". And after level 15 or so, magic goes through the roof.</p><p></p><p>However, there are groups who like this level 1-5 low fantasy play, and they were pretty miffed when 4E changed it.</p><p></p><p>As for simulationist, yes, there are some simulationist elements, for example in the way that 3E tried to express the whole game world in PC rules, including giving the average joe a class (the Commoner). The problem is that D&D is an inherently gamist system, and always was. It's just not a good system to make something like a Commoner class. How does a farmer gain XP? Why would a 20-year old 1st-level Commoner be easily killed, while an experienced 40-year old (pretty much a grandpa in such a world) need two or three strikes with a sword (because he has a higher level and thus more hp)?</p><p></p><p>However, there were groups who liked these simulationist elements, and they were pretty miffed when 4E changed it.</p><p></p><p>What 3E also did was make the game more gamist. The combat rules introduced elements that demand miniatures and a battlemat to work properly, namely opportunity attacks. Challenge Rating for monsters is also a purely gamist concept.</p><p></p><p>Now, there were groups who ignored these gamist elements, and they were pretty miffed when 4E replaced the hood with a sheet of glass and exposed the gamist engine to everyone. This is where the "it's a board game" complaints come from.</p><p></p><p>3E managed to serve a very broad category of gamers with very different preferred playing styles, while 4E catered to a smaller audience. With the Tactics / Legends split, I hope 5E can catch a broader range of players at either end.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mkill, post: 5781796, member: 55985"] (Note: My arguments are based on the [URL="http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/theory/threefold/faq_v1.html"]Threefold Model[/URL]. It represents a better split of player tastes than 3E/4E). The thing is, if you look closer, both D&D Legends and D&D Tactics are an evolution of 3E. The reason is that 3E is not really traditional/low fantasy, and it's not that simulationist either, but it does nod in both directions. To play "low fantasy" with 3E (and AD&D for that matter), you have to end the campaign at a fairly low level, maybe 5 or 6. After that, PC power level and everything else is at least "heroic fantasy". And after level 15 or so, magic goes through the roof. However, there are groups who like this level 1-5 low fantasy play, and they were pretty miffed when 4E changed it. As for simulationist, yes, there are some simulationist elements, for example in the way that 3E tried to express the whole game world in PC rules, including giving the average joe a class (the Commoner). The problem is that D&D is an inherently gamist system, and always was. It's just not a good system to make something like a Commoner class. How does a farmer gain XP? Why would a 20-year old 1st-level Commoner be easily killed, while an experienced 40-year old (pretty much a grandpa in such a world) need two or three strikes with a sword (because he has a higher level and thus more hp)? However, there were groups who liked these simulationist elements, and they were pretty miffed when 4E changed it. What 3E also did was make the game more gamist. The combat rules introduced elements that demand miniatures and a battlemat to work properly, namely opportunity attacks. Challenge Rating for monsters is also a purely gamist concept. Now, there were groups who ignored these gamist elements, and they were pretty miffed when 4E replaced the hood with a sheet of glass and exposed the gamist engine to everyone. This is where the "it's a board game" complaints come from. 3E managed to serve a very broad category of gamers with very different preferred playing styles, while 4E catered to a smaller audience. With the Tactics / Legends split, I hope 5E can catch a broader range of players at either end. [/QUOTE]
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