Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Three Pillars and Class Balance
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="KesselZero" data-source="post: 5830002" data-attributes="member: 6689976"><p>I want characters to be balanced across all three pillars, but that means I want the game to be balanced across all three pillars, too. What bugs me about 4e is that it's all about combat, with a token exploration system (skill challenges) that kind of stinks but at least has a rewards framework, and no rewards framework for roleplaying unless you force it into skill challenges. I hope 5e will have rewards frameworks for all three pillars, so I can run a game that's light on combat (for example) and it won't take my players forever to level up (as is the case in my 4e campaign). I think returning to a simpler, less tactical, faster combat system will go a long way towards making the split more even.</p><p> </p><p>That being said, I'm hoping that I'm reading correctly that for 5e, the designers are looking to flatten the playing field a bit outside of combat as well. That is to say, in 4e we have specific PCs dominating specific skills, so the low-CHA fighter has nothing to do in a social encounter and the low-Perception PCs watch the rogue do all the trapfinding, etc. etc. I get the vibe that the direction 5e is heading is towards smaller bonuses all around, starting with your ability scores (hopefully a little less min-maxed than 4e's 18-or-higher starting requirement) and adding small situational bonuses. To sum up: your fighter can still be useful in social situations because the bard only has +5 higher Diplomacy overall, not +10 or +15, and the difficulty curve is flatter accordingly. This would be the "convincing the duke" equivalent of the designers' stated goal of making orcs meaningful for ten (or whatever) levels of play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KesselZero, post: 5830002, member: 6689976"] I want characters to be balanced across all three pillars, but that means I want the game to be balanced across all three pillars, too. What bugs me about 4e is that it's all about combat, with a token exploration system (skill challenges) that kind of stinks but at least has a rewards framework, and no rewards framework for roleplaying unless you force it into skill challenges. I hope 5e will have rewards frameworks for all three pillars, so I can run a game that's light on combat (for example) and it won't take my players forever to level up (as is the case in my 4e campaign). I think returning to a simpler, less tactical, faster combat system will go a long way towards making the split more even. That being said, I'm hoping that I'm reading correctly that for 5e, the designers are looking to flatten the playing field a bit outside of combat as well. That is to say, in 4e we have specific PCs dominating specific skills, so the low-CHA fighter has nothing to do in a social encounter and the low-Perception PCs watch the rogue do all the trapfinding, etc. etc. I get the vibe that the direction 5e is heading is towards smaller bonuses all around, starting with your ability scores (hopefully a little less min-maxed than 4e's 18-or-higher starting requirement) and adding small situational bonuses. To sum up: your fighter can still be useful in social situations because the bard only has +5 higher Diplomacy overall, not +10 or +15, and the difficulty curve is flatter accordingly. This would be the "convincing the duke" equivalent of the designers' stated goal of making orcs meaningful for ten (or whatever) levels of play. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Three Pillars and Class Balance
Top