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<blockquote data-quote="clark411" data-source="post: 548689" data-attributes="member: 4768"><p><strong>Devil's Advocate</strong></p><p></p><p>Well, I'll just throw in a few comments:</p><p></p><p>1- From a player point of view, I'd say that there was no obvious "suicidal" tendency in this scenario. Upon seeing them at 300 paces, were they identified as ghasts?, and if so, does this mean anything to the characters? If it doesn't- saying it was ludicrous or a lesson is quite silly. If the characters do know something about ghasts, had they themselves encountered them before? Ghasts and ghouls hardly appear any more deadly than other low level undead which, by and large are pretty cake to slice through (unclassed/unadvanced skeletons and zombies). When you take away a character's understanding of mechanics, it usually boils down to numbers and size. Run from big monsters, run if heavily outnumbered- badaboom.</p><p></p><p>2- Also of note, the players had an advantage they opted to exploit at the beginning of combat- 300' away, targeting enemies that were both oblivious to their presense and were forced to spend at least two rounds and a half rounds bee-lining it towards the party before engaging (assuming open ground with no movement penalties or obstacles). I'm frankly quite impressed any time my DM has our opponents instantly zero in on our location and rapidly haul rear over to us - as he's truly displaying his sense of fantasy gaming by optimizing our enemy's situation despite so many disadvantageous factors. /sarcasm off</p><p></p><p>3- Furthermore, undead are not the best "Learn how to run" enemies. With the ghouls' lack of a constitution score (and with a base speed of 30), an average party is more likely to die tired half a mile down the path than escape a ghoul (especially with their surprisingly high listen and spot checks). Exceptions of course may be made for your party barbarian and possibly monk (at level 2 maybe not). Halflings, dwarves, or anyone even remotely armored? Forget about it. The mechanics very often do not support a "Well, we can always run." mentality. The fact that the ghouls zeroed in and engaged them with such alacrity simply furthered the idea that they'd have no choice but to stay and fight.</p><p></p><p>On the whole, I think that despite the above, what I read sounded like a fair adjucation of a rather nasty run of events. The luck fairies tucked tail and ran for your party, and seemed like they paid for their misfortune and more importantly for their WANNA-KILL-SUM-BAAADY! mentality that they had at the end of a night of roleplay.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clark411, post: 548689, member: 4768"] [b]Devil's Advocate[/b] Well, I'll just throw in a few comments: 1- From a player point of view, I'd say that there was no obvious "suicidal" tendency in this scenario. Upon seeing them at 300 paces, were they identified as ghasts?, and if so, does this mean anything to the characters? If it doesn't- saying it was ludicrous or a lesson is quite silly. If the characters do know something about ghasts, had they themselves encountered them before? Ghasts and ghouls hardly appear any more deadly than other low level undead which, by and large are pretty cake to slice through (unclassed/unadvanced skeletons and zombies). When you take away a character's understanding of mechanics, it usually boils down to numbers and size. Run from big monsters, run if heavily outnumbered- badaboom. 2- Also of note, the players had an advantage they opted to exploit at the beginning of combat- 300' away, targeting enemies that were both oblivious to their presense and were forced to spend at least two rounds and a half rounds bee-lining it towards the party before engaging (assuming open ground with no movement penalties or obstacles). I'm frankly quite impressed any time my DM has our opponents instantly zero in on our location and rapidly haul rear over to us - as he's truly displaying his sense of fantasy gaming by optimizing our enemy's situation despite so many disadvantageous factors. /sarcasm off 3- Furthermore, undead are not the best "Learn how to run" enemies. With the ghouls' lack of a constitution score (and with a base speed of 30), an average party is more likely to die tired half a mile down the path than escape a ghoul (especially with their surprisingly high listen and spot checks). Exceptions of course may be made for your party barbarian and possibly monk (at level 2 maybe not). Halflings, dwarves, or anyone even remotely armored? Forget about it. The mechanics very often do not support a "Well, we can always run." mentality. The fact that the ghouls zeroed in and engaged them with such alacrity simply furthered the idea that they'd have no choice but to stay and fight. On the whole, I think that despite the above, what I read sounded like a fair adjucation of a rather nasty run of events. The luck fairies tucked tail and ran for your party, and seemed like they paid for their misfortune and more importantly for their WANNA-KILL-SUM-BAAADY! mentality that they had at the end of a night of roleplay. [/QUOTE]
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