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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bullgrit" data-source="post: 4832295" data-attributes="member: 31216">Well, since you quoted me by name, I must point out that you are misrepresenting what I said. And your post goes in a completely different direction than I was talking in the statement you quote.What I was referring to is that no matter how well a DM creates an encounter to entertain and challenge the PCs, once the PCs enter the encounter (enter the equation), the Players have a lot of control over the outcome (for good or bad). Or it could be said that the DM looses a lot of control over the outcome. Plus, don't forget that simple randomness from the dice can completely throw things out of whack, against the best planning and best intent from either the DM or the Players.To continue the rollercoaster analogy. The DM may be the one designing the roller coaster, operating the controls, and manning the concession stands. But once the Players sit in the coaster, they may stand up, they may jump out (thinking it would be fun). They may try to juggle knives while the coaster is running. They may choke on a peanut from the concession stand. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> happens, you know.And even if the DM is masterful enough to keep a PC from killing himself with the encounter, the DM is outnumbered 4 to 1. You know the saying, "Make something foolproof, and the world will invent a better fool." And even the best, smartest, wisest, most cautious Players can sometimes have a fool moment that catches the DM off guard and not be able fast enough to stop the fool from getting a bad result. (See my thread about me stepping out in front of two dire lions as an example.)For instance: "you don't tone down undead encounters if the cleric can't make it that week"First - I consider it the Players' responsibility to note that hole in their abilities and plan to work around it somehow. Or avoid going into ancient tombs without the cleric.Second - How about if the cleric is present, but he doesn't try to turn anything because, "They're only wights. We can take them without wasting a turn." And then by the end of the encounter, the party is down half a dozen levels.Or if the cleric does try turning, but he fails, every time. (I've seen this.)Of if the cleric Player is present, but the PC was killed just before the party entered the undead encounter.Of the rogue Player thought it would be a funny gag if he pickpocketed the cleric's holy symbol, not knowing undead were coming up.Of if the cleric burned up all his turning attempts using other abilities that use turns (certain feats).Unless you're suggesting the DM place and remove encounters on the fly depending on how the party is doing in the adventure.I take exception at you suggesting I was punishing Players for making stupid decisions. I never punish Players for being dumb. I do, however, usually let things just play out naturally. But for the particular encounter you're talking about here, I actually did a lot on the fly to try to keep the Players from suffering from their foolishness. They overwhelmed me.Monday morning quarterback. Even if I did what you suggest here, the Players can still totally screw it up.For instance, in a recent adventure (in which I was a Player, not the DM), the DM needed us to get a piece of information for us to be able to find a secret door and finish the adventure. He placed a couple of minor humanoids ahead of us in the corridor -- they would not be a real threat to us, and he was going to make them surrender as soon as they saw us. They would then willingly give us the info we needed -- even without us asking for the info. It was a slam dunk way of giving us the info.But the party barbarian ran up ahead of our group looking for a fight (we had been wandering the dungeon for too long). He attacked the humanoids, who threw down their weapons and surrendered. The PC barbarian slew them anyway.The DM told us later about his intents with that encounter. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> happens. And sometimes the DM can't do a damn thing to stop it.Bullgrit</blockquote>

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