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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The tyranny of small numbers
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8679297" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I see a lot of people make this claim. I don't find it bears out in practice.</p><p></p><p>Low stats produce, in the vast majority of cases, one of only two behaviors: either the player turtles up because they're afraid to take risks (because their stats tell them they'll succeed less), or the player acts with reckless abandon because their stats suck, so who cares what happens? I have not seen a single player in all my years of play who actually played a <em>more</em> interesting character <em>specifically because</em> their stats were low. I have seen several players <em>choose to play interesting characters</em>, and then <em>as a result</em> sometimes do certain things with their stats, voluntarily. Such things can in fact be very interesting. But they don't <em>come from</em> having a character with lower stats. That puts the cart before the horse.</p><p></p><p>Limitations only breed creativity when you can achieve the same results by alternate means. There is no alternate means to achieve the same success rates. 5e eliminated that as a possibility when it implemented "bounded accuracy" and removed things like "the DM's best friend" or whatever the old phrase was (+2/-2 as a situational modifier.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>If your characters become less interesting purely because you use the same stat array, that tells me the problem is yours, not the stats'. Dungeon World puts <em>everyone</em> on the same stat array, and I've never seen a game with more interesting and varied characters (13th Age is <em>equal</em>, but that's only because of its One Unique Thing mechanic.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps we should make racial features that are actually interesting then, rather than flattening racial features down so far that they become near-meaningless?</p><p></p><p>It seems to me the issue here isn't the statistics. It's that all the <em>other</em> things don't matter. Maybe if we actually let them matter, stuff would be different?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8679297, member: 6790260"] I see a lot of people make this claim. I don't find it bears out in practice. Low stats produce, in the vast majority of cases, one of only two behaviors: either the player turtles up because they're afraid to take risks (because their stats tell them they'll succeed less), or the player acts with reckless abandon because their stats suck, so who cares what happens? I have not seen a single player in all my years of play who actually played a [I]more[/I] interesting character [I]specifically because[/I] their stats were low. I have seen several players [I]choose to play interesting characters[/I], and then [I]as a result[/I] sometimes do certain things with their stats, voluntarily. Such things can in fact be very interesting. But they don't [I]come from[/I] having a character with lower stats. That puts the cart before the horse. Limitations only breed creativity when you can achieve the same results by alternate means. There is no alternate means to achieve the same success rates. 5e eliminated that as a possibility when it implemented "bounded accuracy" and removed things like "the DM's best friend" or whatever the old phrase was (+2/-2 as a situational modifier.) If your characters become less interesting purely because you use the same stat array, that tells me the problem is yours, not the stats'. Dungeon World puts [I]everyone[/I] on the same stat array, and I've never seen a game with more interesting and varied characters (13th Age is [I]equal[/I], but that's only because of its One Unique Thing mechanic.) Perhaps we should make racial features that are actually interesting then, rather than flattening racial features down so far that they become near-meaningless? It seems to me the issue here isn't the statistics. It's that all the [I]other[/I] things don't matter. Maybe if we actually let them matter, stuff would be different? [/QUOTE]
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