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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8681242" data-attributes="member: 93670">Exactly, once you get away from stereotypes like the BSF or frail & sickly megabrained wizard  it gets more complicated for what's good enough & what's best for this character[spoiler="some 18 arrays since everyone likes them best"]All made using require 1 score of 10 just because 18/18/18/3/3/3 is a lead weight tax on everyone else at the table & limiting it to no duplicates instead would result in too many arrays<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18/18/11/10/3/3.  That might work for a wis/dex monk or something but your going to be pretty helpless against spells  & useless with at least one non-int(or whatever) based attribute's skills</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18/17/14/10/3/3 Great for a lot of builds but unless those first two or three are going into some combination of dex/con/wis you are still probably helpless vrs saves & still useless in skills associated with two attributes but only ok in two others.  Going to be tough doing anything with skills if the whole group is going this way unless everyone hasa lot of your magic items devoted to shoring up specific weaknesses instead of being awesome in a fight</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18/16/10/7/7/3 Starting to look pretty good.  Probably going to have one or two iffy saves & unless it's a skill tied to the first two you are  pretty much entirely reliant on luck of the d20 roll  where you are already at least a little in the hole if not at the very bottom.  If everyone in the group goes with stats like this the same kind of skill problems needing magic items that applied to earlier arrays applies</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18/16/10/8/6/3 Almost identical to the last array but the deck chairs are arranged a little different so you can say you have an 8 somewhere.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18/14/14/10/5/3  Again similar to the last point.  That 5 & the 3 are going to hurt & odds are good you will be helpless against at least one save</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18/13/13/10/6/3   about the same as the last point</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">17/16/16/10/4/3 Three great stats, one ok stat & two crippling dump stats?... ok if the group is picking up the slack but you are probably helpless to some spells & going to find a lot of skills pretty rough without magic items targeting those instead of making you awesome</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">16/16/16/10/4/3  three great stats, one average & two horrific dump stats comes with a lot of benefits & problems ranging from saves to skills having some of the benefits  & drawbacks of everything above,</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">15/15/15/10/9/3  Maybe you really wanted that 9 over the 3 for some skills or something & needed three good  stats for a multiclass?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">15/15/13/13/10/3 Pretty great multiclass or decent skill monkey with a single average skill & a single crippling dump stat.  Problems are going to be build specific</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">starts getting into things like the more average arrays I posted earlier from here</li> </ul>[/spoiler]The group absolutely needs to coordinate better during session zero like that instead of ignoring the group & soloing with The Main Character  with a few PC sidekicks because nobody has the budget to be great at their thing & still be ok at worst with everything else.  Odds are good that anyone who specializes in a skill not tied to say... dex cha or dex... is going to be important whenever that skill comes up & with those crippling dump stats even someone who just drops an average ok +1/+0 on a poorly represented attribute is still going to shine for that choice.</blockquote>

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