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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5593893" data-attributes="member: 2067">Depends on a few assumptions.First, are you playing "sandboxy" or "cinematically?"If the game is a story and the PC's are (probably) the heroes, the answer is "Yes, there could be such a creature, and it could be at any level, since its abilities to trounce NPCs are entirely flavor. It could be first level. It could be a single kobold. It doesn't matter. The PC's are probably the heroes, so if anyone can do it, they can."This would also be the 4e answer.If the game is a sandbox and the characters are just playing in it, the follow up question is: At what power level is "everyone else"?In a world like 3e D&D's suggested world where 99% of people are Level 1 Commoners (and the occasional level 20 hero does exist, but they aren't omnipresent), then there could be such a creature at nearly any level. Because PC's are already a cut above normal folk, it makes sense that no "normal person" could beat even a CR 1 or CR 2 monster. The PC's aren't normal people, so they can beat something even if no one else in the land could (even folks who thought they were adventurers, but were really just Level 1 Warriors instead of Level 1 Commoners). The higher you go, the more likely it could be true with respect to a larger area. Maybe no one in the small village of 4 families has ever come back from fighting in the lair of the goblins. Maybe no one in the great planar metropolis of Sharn has ever come back from fighting in the lair of the great ancient wyrm red dragon, but goblins are no big thing. Which would mean the roughest, toughest, most dangerous creatures ever in your world would be Epic Level Monsters of some form or another. And, theoretically, the PC's could beat them, if they got to that level and wanted to, but the threat of "NO ONE HAS EVER RETURNED" is backed up with the stats of a level 50 force dragon. In a world where the bell curve reaches higher -- 3 or 4 or 10 or whatever (think: FR) -- and the PC's start a big weaker in comparison to many NPC's, the level needs to go up in tandem with the level of the bell curve. If Elminster can kill it, then no one will buy that it's all that dangerous, really. If Elminster CAN'T kill it, it is all that much more dangerous for it. In a world where there is a higher level cap on NPC's -- level 7 or 10 or whatever (think: Eberron) -- and higher level is a Bigger Deal, the level needs to drop in tandem with the bell curve. If the most powerful hero on the face of the planet is Level 5, then it makes sense that no one has ever returned from that...I dunno...lair of demons or whatever. The PC's will be killing it fairly soon, without gaining THAT many levels -- just more than anyone else in the world has.</blockquote>

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