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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Redrobes" data-source="post: 3129675" data-attributes="member: 40793">Interesting topic...I have been following this thread from the start with some interest. I thought that the original question is very similar to the general question posed in the book "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" where they take a very winding road that kinda, sorta, ends up at asking what is quality ?In that book they discuss that everything comes down to how you look at it and one particular cut out of many from the existential scalple and you can divide everything into romantic and classical which they state is also subjective - objective. So thats what the motorcycle bit is all about in the book. Is the bike a romantic shiny toy or a collection of carefully machined objective bits of metal all fulfilling their purpose.So by three pages of discussion we appear to be at a similar point. I think that where we are is thus. Most things - but lets focus on works of artistic merit - have some degree of objectivity and some degree of subjectivity about them. All of the objective - subjective bits are pretty easily separated with, well lets say a reasonably universally agreed basis. This can be spelling & grammar in a book, consistency and lack of opposing statements of fact in the plot vs the subjective elements that are the story, use of language, shapes and color in a picture etc.So I believe that for all of the objective bits its easy to hold a true opinion and guage its quality easily by whether it performs the job that its designed to do. For all of the subjective bits nobody can make an opinionated statement of fact about it - its all up for grabs depending on how you individually feel about it.So back to a certain book that I have not read. If the spelling and grammar is incorrect or the plot contradicts itself where its not desirable for it to, or purports to model reality with absurd statements then it can be considered crap no matter what story it told. As for the story, characters etc and other purely subjective parts, well its just not possible to state whether it is factually a good or bad book based upon any basis other than your own personal opinion.Although there are examples which are almost purely objective like a CAD diagram for a mechanical part or a purly subjective piece like modern art, most things like books, movies and these posts have a bit of each.</blockquote>

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