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<blockquote data-quote="phloog" data-source="post: 4486940" data-attributes="member: 59219">I have no real issue with 4e being more or less like a videogame - ANY set of rules which changes cannot avoid moving either toward or away from videogameyness (which is a real word, I've decided just now), and toward or away from simulation, roleplaying focus...pick your aspect.&nbsp;Frankly, many of the things that help it accomplish that noble goal of DMsuperfriendliness (a real word also, also just now decided) are the very things that make it closer to a videogame...rather, not so much a console videogame, but something like the Quake engine - - a game creator doesn't have to calculate where that skull bounces, the engine does it for her.&nbsp;The problem in my opinion arises when this 4E engine attempts to build or reinforce the ROLES via mechanics.&nbsp; I bring this up often, but it's the best example I have - - - there is a power that when used moves all enemies within X closer to the character by Y, and allows him to attack each.&nbsp; This is independent of any of these enemies stats, willpower, wisdom, awareness of the threat posed by the character, etc.&nbsp; &nbsp;More than the roles alone, it is these kind of 'cute' mechanics that make it feel like a videogame to me.&nbsp; In 3E you had Cleave and similar, which required very little mental/verbal acrobatics to explain in game terms.&nbsp; Now you have a choice with 4E - - you can either create convoluted reasons why suddenly this warrior becomes an irresistable gravity well, or you can just brush it off as 'I turn on my power'...that for me is what makes it feel more like a videogame.&nbsp;And this breaks the Quake engine analogy...now, rather than providing the VERY useful help in calculating where things fall, how high a player can jump, etc...the game system is going beyond the engine stuff and providing all these freaky powers, trying to also serve the purpose of role reinforcement, and you end up with the (my opinion) goofy VG stuff.&nbsp;This is not saying that it isn't fun, or isn't a great game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="phloog, post: 4486940, member: 59219"] I have no real issue with 4e being more or less like a videogame - ANY set of rules which changes cannot avoid moving either toward or away from videogameyness (which is a real word, I've decided just now), and toward or away from simulation, roleplaying focus...pick your aspect. Frankly, many of the things that help it accomplish that noble goal of DMsuperfriendliness (a real word also, also just now decided) are the very things that make it closer to a videogame...rather, not so much a console videogame, but something like the Quake engine - - a game creator doesn't have to calculate where that skull bounces, the engine does it for her. The problem in my opinion arises when this 4E engine attempts to build or reinforce the ROLES via mechanics. I bring this up often, but it's the best example I have - - - there is a power that when used moves all enemies within X closer to the character by Y, and allows him to attack each. This is independent of any of these enemies stats, willpower, wisdom, awareness of the threat posed by the character, etc. More than the roles alone, it is these kind of 'cute' mechanics that make it feel like a videogame to me. In 3E you had Cleave and similar, which required very little mental/verbal acrobatics to explain in game terms. Now you have a choice with 4E - - you can either create convoluted reasons why suddenly this warrior becomes an irresistable gravity well, or you can just brush it off as 'I turn on my power'...that for me is what makes it feel more like a videogame. And this breaks the Quake engine analogy...now, rather than providing the VERY useful help in calculating where things fall, how high a player can jump, etc...the game system is going beyond the engine stuff and providing all these freaky powers, trying to also serve the purpose of role reinforcement, and you end up with the (my opinion) goofy VG stuff. This is not saying that it isn't fun, or isn't a great game. [/QUOTE]

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