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<blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 4488624" data-attributes="member: 386">It's not that his ability to taunt or draw other people in vanishes in other situations, it's just that it doesn't work in the same way at the metagame level.If you want consistency in the game world, you have to approach the interaction between the mechanics and what's actually taking place in the game world / fiction in a different way.&nbsp; The Fighter makes his challenge, and the orcs fall for it.&nbsp; The Fighter, caught up with fighting the orcs, turns his back on the wizards.&nbsp; The Fighter doesn't mean to do this!&nbsp; He's screwed up!&nbsp; He's left his back open!The wizards move in for a quick, silent stab - but the Fighter gets pushed by an orc and luckily spots the Wizards in time, slashing both of them with one sweep of his sword.Note that, in this example, we have no idea if the Fighter has even used Come and Get It at the metagame level.&nbsp; We just have some fancy fiction that satisfies me.The mechanics are more abstract; there's a difference between the metagame (what the players experience) and the in-game fiction (what the characters experience).&nbsp; This break has always been there in D&amp;D, but now it exists in more places.Maybe that means that you can't feel the emotions your character is feeling.&nbsp; If that's a big priority for you then I think 4e is not going to work for you.&nbsp; You can define that barrier to immersion as &quot;videogamey&quot; if you want; I think it's an odd label for a game that doesn't support immersive play.&nbsp; But anways.&nbsp; The fact that barrier exists doesn't mean the fiction created by your group has to be ridiculous and nonsensical.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="LostSoul, post: 4488624, member: 386"] It's not that his ability to taunt or draw other people in vanishes in other situations, it's just that it doesn't work in the same way [i]at the metagame level[/i]. If you want consistency in the game world, you have to approach the interaction between the mechanics and what's actually taking place in the game world / fiction in a different way. The Fighter makes his challenge, and the orcs fall for it. The Fighter, caught up with fighting the orcs, turns his back on the wizards. The Fighter [i]doesn't[/i] mean to do this! He's screwed up! He's left his back open! The wizards move in for a quick, silent stab - but the Fighter gets pushed by an orc and luckily spots the Wizards in time, slashing both of them with one sweep of his sword. Note that, in this example, we have no idea if the Fighter has even used Come and Get It at the metagame level. We just have some fancy fiction that satisfies me. The mechanics are more abstract; there's a difference between the metagame (what the players experience) and the in-game fiction (what the characters experience). This break has always been there in D&D, but now it exists in more places. Maybe that means that you can't [i]feel[/i] the emotions your character is feeling. If that's a big priority for you then I think 4e is not going to work for you. You can define that barrier to immersion as "videogamey" if you want; I think it's an odd label for a game that doesn't support immersive play. But anways. The fact that barrier exists [i]doesn't[/i] mean the fiction created by your group [b]has[/b] to be ridiculous and nonsensical. [/QUOTE]

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