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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tripgnosis" data-source="post: 4489411" data-attributes="member: 27760">Man, sooo much has happened while I was flippin burgers.. I was going to quote a bunch of you but that was gonna be too messy so I'll just sum up my points. Besides you all know what you said. Phloog, most of this is in response to your posts. I agree that alot of the powers are indeed pretty hard to explain within the context of the game world. And that abstraction does take away from the immersion. I've felt less immersed myself, but that's more because of other reasons. At first we were all just tryin to learn the game, so it was pretty much just the mechanics for all of us, no fluff. Now we're playing a public (anyone can join) game in the local comic shop. I hate that atmosphere. Many distractions, not much continuity. And so far, our DM is still stickin pretty much to the bare bones of the encounter rules. He's still getting used to DM'ing 4e, particularly the skill challenges mechanics and how best to make them flow seamless with the rest of the adventure. That's the problem so far, things just don't flow yet. But like I said he's not really trying to fill in the fluff just yet. He's a great DM and cares about the level of detail as much as I do, so I'm not worried. I emailed him about Stalker0's alternative skill challenge systems. I don't like the skill challenge system. I don't want a skill challenge system at all. Our DM never needed one before and was able to seamless integrate skill checks as appropriate, but now that there's a system, he wants to explore that. I think it's too limiting as is. Previously there were tow 'modes' for D&D. Combat, and Adventuring. Adventuring was all freeform. Interracting with NPCS, exploring, using skills, etc. Now that they created a skill challenge mechanic, there doesn't seem to be an adventuring mode anymore. All those things you did in that mode are now a skill challenge which is just another kin of encounter. This makes the game feel like a series of missions, very comparable to video-game 'levels'.   But here's the thing, these flaws and limitations are only there if you stick JUST to the mechanics. There is still room to insert the fluff. And personally I'd be fine with a total abandonment of the skill challenges systemI do admit that 4e is much more videogamey than previous editions, and in ways that can't be resolved without drastic houseruling, which I am against, because I think it throws the balance way off.  One thing I hate the most is the oversimplified grid-rules of 4e. Diagonal movement and area effects should have remained unchanged. They weren't that hard to figure out. The new rules are way too simplified. ANd this happens to be one of those mechanics that can't be resolved without a drastic rewrite of the rules. *shrug*. But the game is still fun, and that's what matters in the end.</blockquote>

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