The villain has just pulled a dirty trick: Is that worth extra XP?

[Mistah J]

Here is the situation that brought up my question:

An evil wizard, under the guise of a kind old soul, invites the party to have tea. The tea is spiked with lich dust poison. Once they start to suffer its effects, the wizard attacks.

Now if I, the DM, had deducted 400gp per dose of poison per PC from this wizard's NPC wealth I would not change the CR or the XP given at all.

But I didn't. I just added it to the encounter - so it is kind of like its own separate thing. Since lich dust is an ingested poison, it is not covered in the mechanical trap poison CR adjustment table so I am wondering how much extra XP others think this is worth? Is it +1 CR to the wizard? Or does it make sense to think of it as its own CR challenge?

Ultimately, this leads to a bigger question: Where do you draw the line between tricks, plans, or tactics that are incorporated into the opponent's CR and those that legitimately push the XP award a little higher?

 

[Jhaelen]

Ultimately, this leads to a bigger question: Where do you draw the line between tricks, plans, or tactics that are incorporated into the opponent's CR and those that legitimately push the XP award a little higher?

These things don't change the CR. They're handled by adjusting the total xp granted by the encounter. The DMG recommends an increase of 25% for situations that grant the opponents a significant advantage.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Villains are SUPPOSED to use dirty tricks. That's what makes them villains. I'd leave it as is, but if you are feeling generous, make up something, throw them a couple hundred extra exp. You don't need to follow a formula, making stuff up is what makes dming fun.

 

[DragonLancer]

Villains are SUPPOSED to use dirty tricks. That's what makes them villains. I'd leave it as is, but if you are feeling generous, make up something, throw them a couple hundred extra exp. You don't need to follow a formula, making stuff up is what makes dming fun.

I agree. I wouldn't award any extra XP for this.

 

[BlubSeabass]

I would give extra XP. this is just a disguised trap. Villains are supposed to use these too, and the PC's are supposed to get XP for that challenge. The trap is outside of the CR powers of the NPC (levels + gear), and should or be treatened as an NPC with improved resources (+1 to CR), or as a vicious "tea-trap CR 6" (kinda looks like a Wyvern poison trap).

 

[Cor_Malek]

I'd give extra XP if they avoided the damn poison. If they drank the thing up and are affected by it, then giving them anything for it makes about as much sense as awarding being ravaged by an owlbear.

Think of it like of a trap that they failed to spot and avoid.

 

[Jhaelen]

Think of it like of a trap that they failed to spot and avoid.

Actually, it's more like a trap they failed to spot and triggered - which is something that _should_ grant xp.

 

[Pbartender]

Or does it make sense to think of it as its own CR challenge?

In a word, yes.

Actually, it's more like a trap they failed to spot and triggered - which is something that _should_ grant xp.

Triggered because they purposefully triggered the trap from a far to avoid the effects? Or triggered because they blundered into the trap and suffered the full effects?

While I would certainly give full experience for the former, this situation seems more like the latter, which normally wouldn't provide full XP, if any at all.

After all, who gives PCs experience for combat encounters in which they flee, surrender or die?

 

[Jhaelen]

Triggered because they purposefully triggered the trap from a far to avoid the effects? Or triggered because they blundered into the trap and suffered the full effects?

While I would certainly give full experience for the former, this situation seems more like the latter, which normally wouldn't provide full XP, if any at all.

You may want to reread the rules section on granting xp:
_Surviving_ traps will grant XP. This includes traps that are triggered because no one noticed them in the first place.

 

[Cor_Malek]

You may want to reread the rules section on granting xp:
_Surviving_ traps will grant XP. This includes traps that are triggered because no one noticed them in the first place.

I've reread them. What book are you referring to? Core Rules(p. 399) say(emphasis mine): "PFRPG characters advance in level by defeating monsters, overcoming challenges and completing adventures. (...)Keep a list of the CR's of all the monsters, traps, obstacles, and roleplaying encounters the PCs overcome.". Alas, I don't own GM guide, so if it's from there - could you cite?

Unintentionally triggering a trap and suffering it's effect is IMO as close to "overcoming" that challenge as being defeated by a monster, or good PC's allowing evil cultist to sacrifice a village to their sinister gods (it is as complete as it gets, isn't it?).

Edit: I've had to check in dictionary to make sure I'm not missing some meaning here (not my first language). All meanings of the word provided, suggest that one needs to gain upper hand or triumph. Survive is mentioned in thesaurus section, but as a related word - not a synonym. Not the best dictionary though ;-)