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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
The War Cleric
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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7840684" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>Working in close proximity to enemies doesn't mean you're not a caster cleric... Assuming human with HAM and war caster, at levels 5-7 your cantrips will typically be doing more damage than your weapons. You do an average of 13 with toll the dead, vs 10 with a greatsword... but you probably want a shield to help maintain concentration, so more likely 7.5 with a warhammer (I'm ignoring to-hit because it will favor one or the other depending on AC and saves). </p><p></p><p>At level 8 your weapon gets an extra d8, bringing the warhammer up to 12, 13 plus a to-hit boost if you boost strength... but if you boost wisdom your spiritual weapon gets better and enemies fail their saves vs spirit guardians more often. So the cantrip build is still slightly ahead, even without potent cantrip.</p><p></p><p>But that's without weapon feats... What do you take? PAM doesn't give you that much when you have spiritual weapon anyway... GWM gives the war cleric some burst potential, but by level 6 they are probably better off using their CD on a martial ally. Booming blade / GFB would be nice, but it seems hard to justify foregoing a Wisdom boost (and the attendant spiritual weapon / spirit guardians damage) for a couple points of damage a round, some of which will be eroded at level 11 when toll the dead scales again.</p><p></p><p>I might be missing something, but it feels like even the most melee-oriented single-classed cleric (war cleric) has a hard time outdoing even themselves when using a weapon from tier 2 on, let alone a subclass that gets features to support casting (such as potent cantrip).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7840684, member: 6966824"] Working in close proximity to enemies doesn't mean you're not a caster cleric... Assuming human with HAM and war caster, at levels 5-7 your cantrips will typically be doing more damage than your weapons. You do an average of 13 with toll the dead, vs 10 with a greatsword... but you probably want a shield to help maintain concentration, so more likely 7.5 with a warhammer (I'm ignoring to-hit because it will favor one or the other depending on AC and saves). At level 8 your weapon gets an extra d8, bringing the warhammer up to 12, 13 plus a to-hit boost if you boost strength... but if you boost wisdom your spiritual weapon gets better and enemies fail their saves vs spirit guardians more often. So the cantrip build is still slightly ahead, even without potent cantrip. But that's without weapon feats... What do you take? PAM doesn't give you that much when you have spiritual weapon anyway... GWM gives the war cleric some burst potential, but by level 6 they are probably better off using their CD on a martial ally. Booming blade / GFB would be nice, but it seems hard to justify foregoing a Wisdom boost (and the attendant spiritual weapon / spirit guardians damage) for a couple points of damage a round, some of which will be eroded at level 11 when toll the dead scales again. I might be missing something, but it feels like even the most melee-oriented single-classed cleric (war cleric) has a hard time outdoing even themselves when using a weapon from tier 2 on, let alone a subclass that gets features to support casting (such as potent cantrip). [/QUOTE]
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