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The Warlord [New Class]
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6707048" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Seeing as I'm not the only person who got this idea from your post, perhaps there was something wrong with how you presented the argument?</p><p></p><p>Because it seemed pretty clear that you were saying "Paladin etc. are in because they have Legacy, <em>and therefore</em> Warlord is not justified <em>because</em> it has no legacy." Which, as I said, results in that catch-22.</p><p></p><p>If all you were trying to say was, "Paladin/etc. don't <em>need</em> any more justification than that they've been done for many years," well...your words did not communicate that that was <em>all</em> you were trying to say.</p><p></p><p>My further point was that "legacy" clearly cannot be a <em>necessary</em> condition for inclusion (Dragonborn and Warlocks don't have it, but are included); nor can it be a <em>sufficient</em> condition (Fochlucan Lyrist/"druidic bards" and an "acrobat" archetype have it, but are not included). Hence why I listed the variety of examples I did--some are included which lack the legacy you speak of, while others are not included despite having it. If it is neither necessary nor sufficient for inclusion, it's not a particularly great criterion of inclusion, as far as logic is concerned.</p><p></p><p>Also, just so we're clear: "facts are not opinions" is not the same as "irrefutable logic." It's absolutely a fact that Paladins/etc. have been in the game longer. That fact does not subsequently entail that they <em>should</em> continue to be present--it requires the further, normative statement, "Things with long legacy should be included."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6707048, member: 6790260"] Seeing as I'm not the only person who got this idea from your post, perhaps there was something wrong with how you presented the argument? Because it seemed pretty clear that you were saying "Paladin etc. are in because they have Legacy, [I]and therefore[/I] Warlord is not justified [I]because[/I] it has no legacy." Which, as I said, results in that catch-22. If all you were trying to say was, "Paladin/etc. don't [I]need[/I] any more justification than that they've been done for many years," well...your words did not communicate that that was [I]all[/I] you were trying to say. My further point was that "legacy" clearly cannot be a [I]necessary[/I] condition for inclusion (Dragonborn and Warlocks don't have it, but are included); nor can it be a [I]sufficient[/I] condition (Fochlucan Lyrist/"druidic bards" and an "acrobat" archetype have it, but are not included). Hence why I listed the variety of examples I did--some are included which lack the legacy you speak of, while others are not included despite having it. If it is neither necessary nor sufficient for inclusion, it's not a particularly great criterion of inclusion, as far as logic is concerned. Also, just so we're clear: "facts are not opinions" is not the same as "irrefutable logic." It's absolutely a fact that Paladins/etc. have been in the game longer. That fact does not subsequently entail that they [I]should[/I] continue to be present--it requires the further, normative statement, "Things with long legacy should be included." [/QUOTE]
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