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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 5571042" data-attributes="member: 48965">I think you have hit it on the head here (though with the caveat that IMO, 4e is more gamist then narrativist in it's metagame mechanics and decisions.). That said I don't think anyone is saying you absolutely can not roleplay in 4e but instead that it has become much harder in this edition for many players... as opposed to previous editions and even other games.  4e, as a gamist system, forces you at times to step out of the immersion of thinking and acting as your character would, with the information he would reasonably have, and instead gives you knowledge of a game mechanics nature that is often used on a metagame level to make decisions. This in turn does force one to stop roleplaying their character and instead look at the situation in a mechanical (some would also claim "narrative") way.  A prime example of this with 4e is the "everyone knows what effects and conditions powers put on them" thing. As a more specific example to illustrate my point... let's take the Rogue power Riposte Strike. Now when a Rogue uses this, regardless of whether he's attacking a skilled martial warrior, a savage beast, a fungoid plant monster, an ooze or whatever... that creature automatically knows that if they attack him again they will be attacked in return, and thus the decision to attack or not attack isn't based on what that creature should reasonably know but instead on the in-game creature actually having metagame knowledge of the mechanics of the power.  First it stretches immersion because it is unrealistic that every creature (from the most alien or dumb to super genuises) in exsistence should know how to read the rogue's fighting style (even if this is the first time they've ever fought a rogue) well enough to know every single time that he is drawing them in for a follow up attack. More importantly, with this information firmly in mind the decision process is much different than it would be if the metagame knowledge was not explicitly stated to be known by the creature in-game. So now when the DM makes the decision to attack or not he is not basing it on the knowledge the creature would reasonably have in game... but instead on the metagame knowledge granted to the creature by the rules of the game. As a final note, even though this is an example based on the DM's immersion... it works the same way for players as well.</blockquote>

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