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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5571215" data-attributes="member: 54877">Rules complexity is an impediment to roleplaying--right up until it isn't. Since some "casual" players are never going to internalize certain kinds or degrees of complexity, then by definition their roleplaying is limited in certain systems. In college, I started a group of mostly raw novices with Fantasy Hero (1st ed, later 4th). At first, they roleplayed because they were new, I knew what I was doing, and that's what you get in any system with an experienced GM and new, enthusiastic players. Then they started absorbing the complexity of FH. This interfered with roleplaying somewhat, but their enthusiasm carried them through this period. Then we reached the point where all of them had internalized the system, and it faded back into the background. (Except for one lady who never internalizes any system we play. She "merely" roleplays, and lets other people handle the mechanics. This works fine for us, as long as not everyone does that.) I don't think that trajectory is all that atypical of many D&D groups through the years, though the complexity of FH is much more front-loaded, and then elegant once you get it. I also had a guy try 3E who was so thrust out of character by d20 + precalculated modifier on a sword attack, that he couldn't enjoy it. For him, that was too much complexity. Or rather, the wrong kind of complexity.  He would have been fine with complicated logistics.</blockquote>

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