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Message: <blockquote data-quote="brehobit" data-source="post: 5571716" data-attributes="member: 12032">One could argue that the ad hominem attacks are largely toward those that find RPing in 4e hard.  It's clearly our fault.  We're doing it wrong or haven't given it a real shot.  I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm not a great RPer.  I'm good in good RPing groups, but I can't pull a group along with me.  <clip>This was a problem early on.  At this point I've played and run a LOT of 4e.  The rules are rarely much of a problem.I *love* rituals.  They make me quite happy and are one of the best things about 4e.  But also, as one might expect of a new (and good) idea, they aren't implemented very well.  The costs are too high and to use rituals (at least at the lower-levels (1-7) I generally play at, you are spending a lot of money.  I've house-ruled these in the past so that you "accumulate" some amount of ritual $$$$ every day up to some limit (5 days worth).  Still doesn't quite work with the wonky money values of 4e, but it works okay.  Never been a problem for me at least.  The rules aren't as fun or colorful to read as the 1e, 2e or even 3e rules (1e is easily the best this way) and that hurts a bit.  But way down low on the list of issues.So those of us that really like 4e (and I do) but find it hard to get a good RPing session in are somehow not giving it a fair shot?  I think that just because others have different experiences than you doesn't mean that we aren't doing our best with it.Certainly true.  As a DM, I find it hard to keep the fairly complex encounters playing well from a gamest viewpoint (the baddies fighting well) and jump back and forth to providing plenty of color and description.  It's just a bit too much for me sometimes.  As I think about it, the biggest problem is that it's hard to run a "gritty" game in 4e.  The PCs are so powerful and special.  Try to adapt an old 1e or 2e module to 4e.   It's really hard.  One actually quite scary encounter in Dark Sun was with a plant.  It holds water but you can't approach it and you pretty much have no real ranged weapons so you need to engage it if you want the water.  In 2e, those hit points lost in the fight _hurt_.  At best you were eating your parties limited healing.  In 4e not only does the damage not matter (you'll be fine tomorrow) but nearly every party member has a ranged at-will attack that will just crush the plant.  Some encounters and ideas from 1e-3e are just nearly impossible to implement in 4e.  And that includes the things I prefer to run.  It's not a big deal, I can run a more high-fantasy game (and do).  But it's an annoying limitation.  The strong emphasis 3e and 4e put on balance (and thankfully essentials has let drop to some extent) makes some things harder...Again, I really like 4e.  I found 3e to be overly complex past about 7th level.  I found 2e to be largely okay and I found 1e to be fun but not a consistent experience (the rules were just too vague).  I just think that 4e has it's own problems (as does every game) and we should try to identify what those problems are (though people will of course have different issues) and see if we can't find some good workarounds.</blockquote>

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