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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5572412" data-attributes="member: 54877">Tying this back to immersion is a good catch! Part of the reason we are having the argument is semantics, again. And maybe that seems dismissive, but I don't mean it that way. I'm actually really appreciating the combination of real disagreement, with forceful points made, and an apparent willingness from everyone to get to the nuggets underneath, instead of "winning". It's rare online. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> So the denial is because there are at least two different ways to semantically handle what Imaro expressed. One of them is obviously correct. It's the other one we are really arguing about. We can't argue about it profitably without some common basis. It took some back and forth for me to even understand the way Imaro meant it, because in mind the second way was assumed. I'm willing to concede that models that diverge will often have jarring effects. I'm not so sure that the jars happen on a smooth curve, however. Isn't that what the "uncanny valley" effect basically repudiates? A real dollar bill isn't jarring. We are used to it, and it is the "real" thing. As long as we are talking about a particular model, where currency is exchanged for goods. Tangle the image up to much in, say, an electronic commerce discussion, or even banking discussion, and it can be jarring. It "models" ownership of $1.00. Monopoly money also isn't jarring. It's clearly fake, both a rough simulation of the real currency and also a scorekeeping device. Take monopoly money out of your wallet, and it is jarring. Replace your monolopy money with real currency while playing, and it is also jarring. And this isn't even a particularly telling example. The correspondences are close enough that we can navigate the jars fairly easy. (Full Disclosure: My grandmother taught me how to make change at age 4, using monopoly money. I don't think I was unduly damaged by this. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />) It should be noted that Monopoly money was deliberately made discordant for game play purposes (not merely counterfeit concerns). I'm not sure how much of immersion can be objectively discussed as human reaction to models, on average. Obviously some, or we wouldn't be able to talk about the uncanny value. But some of it is clearly subjective and highly personal. Ridiculously large swords and giant eyes break immersion for me, to the point that I would find it impossible to immerse in an RPG session built around certain popular fiction. Overt appeal to Joseph Campbell's views on mythology in an RPG session takes me clean out of any possible immersion. Whereas, something like "Armor as AC" doesn't bother me one whit. It just doesn't.</blockquote>

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