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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5573117" data-attributes="member: 18280">Just jumping in here because I have something relevant to suggest.In RCFG, I set up a system where you can make multiple skill checks, where the pass/fail on the final check is the critical pass/fail.  Each additional skill check is a gamble, where you set the DC and attempt to reach it, for some particular bonus.  If you succeed, you get the bonus on the overall check; if you fail, you take a penalty to the same amount.  Each additional skill check must make sense within the narrative as well.So, if your character had knowledge (lower planes), diplomacy, perform (singing), and perform (fiddle), you could use the first three skills to attempt to modify your final perform (fiddle) skill check.This is a dynamic system that forces the players to decide just how much they are willing to risk, and how far they are willing to reach.  It means that a failure to understand the devil as well as you think you do can critically affect your fiddling the right tune to turn his heart.  It also means that, when factors stack up in your favour, you can do much better than you otherwise could.Finally, in situations where a group can work together, each making a relevant contribution, it beats the 4e Skill Challenge to a bloody death, IMHO and IME.RC</blockquote>