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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5573313" data-attributes="member: 61155">There are quite a few different approaches possible. First off, an explanation of my own position - I'm of the view that having such secondary skills competing for skill points with primary adventuring skills was a bad thing. I think that the 4E solution - to remove those skills entirely - was not my ideal solution by any means, but was still an improvement overall. There are two primary approaches suggested by 4E. The one some have mentioned earlier - use other skills appropriate to the situation. If playing a tune to impress a crowd, roll Diplomacy. If engaged in a grueling fiddling contest to see who can play the longest, roll Endurance.  It somewhat works in theory, but I'm not a big fan of it in practice. I tend to prefer the other approach, which relies on several elements that aren't used as often these days - ability checks, and circumstance bonuses.  Instead of a Perform skill based on Charisma, why not just have the bard make a Charisma check - and give him a circumstance bonus if it is something his character should be good at. This is the advice some designers have given - let the players have their appropriate background skills. Don't codify them as actual skill checks, but simply give out appropriate bonuses when those skills are relevant.  For the most, I think it works, but can venture a bit farther into the realm of DM fiat than some are comfortable with.  Myself, I'm taking it a step further in my next campaign - each character will get a few minor background benefits based on their backstory. These might take them form of additional languages...or could be secondary skills.  I'm not going to write up a list of every craft and profession skill before the game. But if a character sends me a backstory discussing how they were taught woodworking by elves, I'll tell them that they have the Woodworking skill - a Wisdom based skill in which they are trained (and thus get a +5 bonus if it comes up).  I've seen some other systems that have completely standardized access to this, letting the PCs pick and choose it as they go, and even as they level; I'm opting for a less formal approach to try it out. But I think that is my hope for whenever 5th edition comes along - having both adventuring skills and background skills in the game, but as seperate elements, rather than in competition for the same resource.</blockquote>

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