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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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<blockquote data-quote="Aenghus" data-source="post: 5575853" data-attributes="member: 2656"><p>This is all IMO and I know little about music - like 90% or more of referees out there.</p><p></p><p>4e has gone for a reduced skill list, which pushes some skill resolution further towards negotiation between the player and the DM. </p><p></p><p>Does a "perform specific art" skill, if it exists, incorporate everything involved in making a performance, including reading the crowd, choosing what to perform, recovering or covering up errors, dealing with hecklers, adapting to changing circumstances? Not necessarily so. I think most of us are familiar of the concept of a technically proficient performer who lacks the social skills to work the crowd. Conversely, a con-man who was magically granted musical proficiency could make a good attempt at the other areas above.</p><p></p><p>The interesting thing to me in skill resolution are the real choices the player makes along the way. (This is in part the limits imposed by verbal communication in the game). </p><p></p><p>An audience of common people will probably want to hear a familiar ballad they can sing along with. Nobles may want a more complicated heroic ballad. A musical audience may want a technically difficult and less accessible piece. The Insight skill could be used to read the audience, and gauge their mood.</p><p></p><p>Perception could be used to hear requests from the audience and spot troublemakers in the audience, rotten fruit and other missiles on their way.</p><p></p><p>Intimidate could be used to cow hecklers, impress a belligerent audience, possibly make fun of someone in the audience.</p><p></p><p>Diplomacy could be used to adapt a work to the tastes of the audience, and deal politely with them.</p><p></p><p>There are lots of potential options here, and different people will have different tastes as to resolution. </p><p></p><p>To me, limiting a skill resolution of an importan conflict to one or more rolls of a very specific skill only one PC may have is very limiting, and potentially prohibitive(e.g. the player may miss the game). </p><p></p><p>I think important conflicts should involve some meaningful decision making. Just "rolling the single specific skill" and "rolling your best skill" are failure modes for the two types of resolution, the decisions framing the resolution are the interesting bit, at least for me.</p><p></p><p>I honestly don't think there is a "one size fits all" solution to detailed skill resolution.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aenghus, post: 5575853, member: 2656"] This is all IMO and I know little about music - like 90% or more of referees out there. 4e has gone for a reduced skill list, which pushes some skill resolution further towards negotiation between the player and the DM. Does a "perform specific art" skill, if it exists, incorporate everything involved in making a performance, including reading the crowd, choosing what to perform, recovering or covering up errors, dealing with hecklers, adapting to changing circumstances? Not necessarily so. I think most of us are familiar of the concept of a technically proficient performer who lacks the social skills to work the crowd. Conversely, a con-man who was magically granted musical proficiency could make a good attempt at the other areas above. The interesting thing to me in skill resolution are the real choices the player makes along the way. (This is in part the limits imposed by verbal communication in the game). An audience of common people will probably want to hear a familiar ballad they can sing along with. Nobles may want a more complicated heroic ballad. A musical audience may want a technically difficult and less accessible piece. The Insight skill could be used to read the audience, and gauge their mood. Perception could be used to hear requests from the audience and spot troublemakers in the audience, rotten fruit and other missiles on their way. Intimidate could be used to cow hecklers, impress a belligerent audience, possibly make fun of someone in the audience. Diplomacy could be used to adapt a work to the tastes of the audience, and deal politely with them. There are lots of potential options here, and different people will have different tastes as to resolution. To me, limiting a skill resolution of an importan conflict to one or more rolls of a very specific skill only one PC may have is very limiting, and potentially prohibitive(e.g. the player may miss the game). I think important conflicts should involve some meaningful decision making. Just "rolling the single specific skill" and "rolling your best skill" are failure modes for the two types of resolution, the decisions framing the resolution are the interesting bit, at least for me. I honestly don't think there is a "one size fits all" solution to detailed skill resolution. [/QUOTE]
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The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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