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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ryujin" data-source="post: 5576002" data-attributes="member: 27897">It falls into one of the role play elements, that the game designers thought was important to codify as a mechanical element; the ability to negotiate effectively.  The people, who played Fighters, were generally happy to just whack things over the head. It wasn't about role playing, for most of them, though the previously mentioned 'in-combat role play' certainly came into it, with trash talking and battle cries. They didn't need a skill in order to do it or, for example, to taunt a particular enemy into combat.  And I'm saying that since the game system isn't written that way they need to work around to it in another manner, rather than trying to bend the game so out of shape.   Exactly <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I understood you. I'm simply saying that the act of telling the joke isn't as simple as resolving a single skill use, in 4e. It's a cumulative effect of multiple abilities. Of course there will be corner cases. You can stay hidden from a bunch of creatures simply by remaining hidden. In an infiltration challenge I would add to it, by creating situations in which staying hidden wouldn't be possible, for the entire task. Is there a point at which you will definitely be exposed to the direct view, of several creatures? You'd better be able to bluff them then, to get them to look another way.If you can spam a single skill for an entire 'skill challenge' then it didn't need a 'skill challenge.' Make one roll then get on with playing, rather than bogging down the game for no good reason. Take a look at the infiltration challenge at the Hill Giants' stockade, in "Revenge of the Giants."I'm saying that if specific mechanics are important, to some people, then they chose the wrong game. Certain systems work better for the way that some people think that things should work, than they do for other people.</blockquote>

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